New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[Aable]

King's Justice seems to have an odd damage bonus.

When I use it on mobs that take bonus damage from some types of damage, it seems to behave as if that mob was weak to slashing, posibally it allows your Gaxe to mimic whatever weakness a mob has.

This does not effect mobs that are relistant to all types of melee, only ones with specific a weakness

Greater birds(piercing weakness/slashing resistance) for example will take massive ammounts of damage.

Also mobs that are typically weak to slashing take extreamly high damage 1600~2k damage on hounds in einherjar

[kwontess]

There is no cap to the dINT part for BLM WS, or if there is it's considerably higher than 24. So there might not be one for COR WS either.

Are we sure on the new blm ws that its a dINT and not just some multiplier of INT? I mean we know both of these weaponskill scale with INT/AGI respectively is it possible that we're just adding one some function of INT and AGI and its not actually a difference? I mean once we say dINT or dAGI doesn't cap then we are throwing away the old ws formulas and working on something entirely different. There would be no reason to assume that the rest of the formula adheres to a known standard.

AGI doesn't cap, it isnt' affected by TP and it doesn't depend on the mobs AGI. If int is there its capped in all my tests as adding int does nothing. If int caps I dont' care about it as its only adding some fixed unvariable amount on these tests and doesn't explain the discrepancy.

[Suiram]

I posted the exact formula for the BLM one on the bottom of page 11. Try modifying it by replacing INT with AGI and changing the fTP where appropriate and see if it works out?

[vagus]

King's Justice seems to have an odd damage bonus.

When I use it on mobs that take bonus damage from some types of damage, it seems to behave as if that mob was weak to slashing, posibally it allows your Gaxe to mimic whatever weakness a mob has.

This does not effect mobs that are relistant to all types of melee, only ones with specific a weakness

Greater birds(piercing weakness/slashing resistance) for example will take massive ammounts of damage.

Also mobs that are typically weak to slashing take extreamly high damage 1600~2k damage on hounds in einherjar

So mobs that have weakness to weapons (ie. bones, greater birds, aura pots) KJ is better. For other mobs (beastman etc) Raging Rush or Steel Cyclone is better.

[Bagel]

That is super neat if true. This wouldn't be exactly the same thing, but I wonder if Tomahawk could possibly have an effect on damage.

[kwontess]

I posted the exact formula for the BLM one on the bottom of page 11. Try modifying it by replacing INT with AGI and changing the fTP where appropriate and see if it works out?

Just working with 100 TP, I know that each AGI adds 2.94 damage (in fact I know this is true at 200 TP and 300 TP which means the formula can't technically be correct). But lets just see if its accurate at 100 TP and worry about scaling later on. I'm going to ignore floor functions as I'm only interested in whether this roughly lines up or not. The total multiplier for each AGI added would be

2+fTP*.83*.3 = 2 + .249*fTP. Now I know this number should be 2.94 which would mean that fTP would have to be 3.77. However 377*77 is going to give me WAY too much damage (more than I get). So lets try something different.

Let WST be my WSC then each AGI adds

2+fTP*.83*WSC = 2.94 so fTP*.83*WSC = .94 or fTP*WSC = 1.13

Now plugging in some numbers we also know that 74 AGI on level 0 mob gives 516 dmg. Lets call dAGI = 72 (roughly since we're just approximating). So we have

2*72+fTP(77+.83*WSC*74) = 516
or

144+77fTP+69 = 516

fTP ~ 3.9

If fTP is ~ 3.9 then WSC ~ .29

After rounding perhaps one would say fTP ~ 4.0 and WSC ~ 30% (since I ignored various floor functions). But this creates a problem as we would get over 2.94 dmg return per AGI. So if this were the formula we have have to deal with the fact that SE picked not-nice numbers (its certainly possible) and maybe we can live with this.

However there are other issues with this formula. Damage varies with TP, but AGI gives constant returns. At 200 TP adding 30 AGI exactly increases my damage by the same amount as adding 30 AGI at 100 TP. So if my fTP increases with TP its not multiplying my AGI which is very very odd, meaning in fact its not a WSC at all, since part of being a WSC is being multiplied by fTP.

The next conjecture would be that maybe there is no WSC and its just simply dAGI which is uncapped being multiplied by 2.94. We then have a fTP of around 4 at 100 TP. However when I did my ballista tests adding AGI to my opponent left the damage the same. I did my tests (there is some inherent magic resistance going on, but I'm only concerned with whether numbers change) and then I added 14 AGI to my opponent and hit for the exact same amount, this test was repeated several times.

The other baffling thing was in ballista adding int did raise my damage, so there is still possibly a dINT is being used, it must have to cap though since lower level mobs saw no increase in damage from int.

I will try and run some more tests tonight, but this quite frankly doesn't fit with standard formulas as fTP and AGI mods dont' get multiplied. It appears there is a dINT but it does cap. AGI is not used in dAGI if my ballista tests are to be believed since adding AGI to my opponent didnt' affect the damage.

One possibility is that it does something crazy like my AGI minus my opponents INT, this would be rather silly but it is something I havent' tested for yet.

[Suiram]

I went back and read through your earlier posts, I'm willing to bet it's just 2*dAGI + fTP*(77 + WSC) where WSC is .83 * AGI * X and fTP * .83 * X at 100% is roughly .94.

I don't have COR, and although I almost convinced my COR friend with it to help me test until I realized lightsday was coming again. So I'll tell you exactly what I'd do to figure it out. First find a way to land on 100% TP exactly. 10 hits with Gelong Staff would work if you have one, or 20 hits with a Federation Knife or Cermet Knife +1, then go out to the Lv0 mobs in starter zones. Build to 100% TP and find the damage, build to 200% TP and find the damage, build to 300% TP and find the damage. Build to 100% TP and have someone cast Frost on the mob then find the damage. Build to 100% TP and wear a Gorget and find the damage. Don't use staff or martial gun or anything, and if you had to sub BLM to cast Frost yourself, account for the MAB.

Comparing the first test with the fourth will give you the mob's AGI (assuming it is dAGI), and how much of the damage was in the dAGI component. Subtract that off the first, second, and third, and fifth test to get the value of the second term in each of those. Then compare the value you got from the first and fifth test to find the fTP. From there you should be able to find the fTP for 200% and 300%, as well as the % of AGI used in WSC. Or just do those five tests and post here.

Edit: I just read your last post and I didn't realize that part about the INT, which complicates things. Also, whatever you do, don't use Ballista if you care about figuring this out, unless you only care about the damage in ballista.

[pheonixistari]

One thing i'm interested to find out is if any of these new weapon skills are ranged attacks aside from Leaden Salute and Trueflight.

Asectic's Fury looks like it could be ranged from the ws animation ala Mistral Axe/Gust Slash/Starlight.

[LD]

Retribution looks like it could be ranged, but it isn't.

[pheonixistari]

Retribution looks like it could be ranged, but it isn't.

Well I know that, but there is only one way to find out now isn't there?

Tachi: Kaiten and Final Heaven are also examples of ones that look like they could be ranged but aren't.

Just trying to find out if there is some other kind of application for some of the less than stellar weapon skills added.

[kwontess]

I went back and read through your earlier posts, I'm willing to bet it's just 2*dAGI + fTP*(77 + WSC) where WSC is .83 * AGI * X and fTP * .83 * X at 100% is roughly .94.

I don't have COR, and although I almost convinced my COR friend with it to help me test until I realized lightsday was coming again. So I'll tell you exactly what I'd do to figure it out. First find a way to land on 100% TP exactly. 10 hits with Gelong Staff would work if you have one, or 20 hits with a Federation Knife or Cermet Knife +1, then go out to the Lv0 mobs in starter zones. Build to 100% TP and find the damage, build to 200% TP and find the damage, build to 300% TP and find the damage. Build to 100% TP and have someone cast Frost on the mob then find the damage. Build to 100% TP and wear a Gorget and find the damage. Don't use staff or martial gun or anything, and if you had to sub BLM to cast Frost yourself, account for the MAB.

Comparing the first test with the fourth will give you the mob's AGI (assuming it is dAGI), and how much of the damage was in the dAGI component. Subtract that off the first, second, and third, and fifth test to get the value of the second term in each of those. Then compare the value you got from the first and fifth test to find the fTP. From there you should be able to find the fTP for 200% and 300%, as well as the % of AGI used in WSC. Or just do those five tests and post here.

Edit: I just read your last post and I didn't realize that part about the INT, which complicates things. Also, whatever you do, don't use Ballista if you care about figuring this out, unless you only care about the damage in ballista.

Yes the problem is the INT. The other problem is that AGI DOES NOT SCALE with fTP. At 300 TP 1 AGI gives 2.94 damage and at 100 TP 1 AGI gives 2.94 damage. I don't mean to be a dick with the caps and bold, but its a really important observation. I'll go double check my numbers again (burned through 12 stacks of bullets already running tests).

I have no problems landing on 100 TP exactly. Its 6 shots with martial gun or coffinmaker (thats what allows me to easily compare 100 TP to 200 TP).

Why doesn't more TP give me a larger return on AGI if there is a WSC mod? This is the part that is confusing me about any possibly formula. If there is a WSC then its being multiplied by fTP, however my AGI is not affected by TP.

I worked out what the WSC and fTP would have to be, but it doesn't make sense for things like adding int.

I realize ballista numbers are horrible to use. However all that I care about in ballista is seeing a change. If I keep the stats the same I always get the same numbers. Adding AGI to my opponent gives the exact same damage without exception. Adding INT to my opponent lowers my damage. And adding TP never changes how much damage my AGI does.

It sounds crazy but I believe the formula may be something like

n(AGI-INT)+fTP(77+2)

Where INT is my opponents INT. I'm gonna go test it out on some low level mobs using burn (I'll use a second char so I don't have to worry about gaining MAB from /blm).

[Jkun]

What's with the NQ Animator? >_> You could get a whopping 2 more DEX from Turbo (which you should have anyways?) and 4 from +1

Or you could get Animator+1 for 4 DEX!!111

*Rubs it in mioko's face* <3

[kwontess]

Just to really verify that it isn't dAGI I went out to tahrongi canyon, I got 508 damage then cast frost and got 508 damage again. Both trials with 74 AGI on myself.

I just tested it with Burn, lowering the mobs INT raises my damage, lowering the mobs AGI does nothing. Raising my INT does nothing, raising my AGI raises my damage. Thus AGI-INT must be what is used.

I'm going to try and get a soil gorget, I don't have soil or dark which is part of what complicates testing. I have 10 aern and 10 xzomit in my safe I was saving for obi's but maybe I'll blow them if I can't figure out the fTP otherwise.

[Therin]

In regards to King's Justice:

That's really nice, if it's true. Like, incredibly nice. Perhaps a test in Apollyon should be in the works?

[Callisto]

Just to really verify that it isn't dAGI I went out to tahrongi canyon, I got 508 damage then cast frost and got 508 damage again. Both trials with 74 AGI on myself.

I just tested it with Burn, lowering the mobs INT raises my damage, lowering the mobs AGI does nothing. Raising my INT does nothing, raising my AGI raises my damage. Thus AGI-INT must be what is used.

I'm going to try and get a soil gorget, I don't have soil or dark which is part of what complicates testing. I have 10 aern and 10 xzomit in my safe I was saving for obi's but maybe I'll blow them if I can't figure out the fTP otherwise.

It has Transfixion as well afaik, can use Light.

[Callisto]

Well rather, I tested and Light worked, upped damage from 480 to 501~

[miokomioko]

Or you could get Animator+1 for 4 DEX!!111

*Rubs it in mioko's face* <3

That's what I said... o_O

P.S. I have one :3

[kwontess]

All I have is breeze, it does jin, DE, SB, SW, SS and detonator. I figured I'd never need another gorget

[Max™]

In regards to King's Justice:

That's really nice, if it's true. Like, incredibly nice. Perhaps a test in Apollyon should be in the works?

Yes, it went from "well, it makes light" to "oh shit, it mimics damage weaknesses?"

[Callisto]

Yeah, glad I picked Light lol, covers all the ranged ones.