New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[Kumaccio]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/28/atonementwd9.jpg
today on Freke...
I are a DD!

[kwontess]

Ughh, I'm getting tired of this. Its becoming difficult to do things because of this int factor.

I'm going to propose that the formula is 2.94xAGI-2xINT+fTP*77. I'll see about getting a gorget tonight to look into fTP. I'm thinking its around 4.

I tested 100 versus 200 TP in saruta and got completely consistent results. I.e. LS@200-LS@100 was a fixed constant regardless of my AGI. Adding 38 AGI increased both but by the exact same amount.

I redid my tests in tahrongi canyon and I think because there is 1-2 points difference in int my results are slightly skewed. Regardless here they are:

100 TP w/ 74 AGI - 508
100 TP w/ 112 AGI - 620
200 TP w/ 74 AGI - 530 and 532 damage
200 TP w/ 112 AGI - 646 damage

I realize the numbers aren't 100% consistent but they are off by 2-4. Considering its a 38 point change in AGI ftp*WSC = .12. Considering fTP has to be > 3 for the level part of the function to work right that makes WSC 0.04 which seems rediculous.

I'm going to go back and check my CHR tests. That is the only one I didn't put extensive time into. Its possible I missed something there. But if I don't find anything with +CHR gear then I'm gonna say there is no WSC its just about 3xAGI-2xINT+300 or so (where I've rounded things).


Edit: Request
Callisto can you do the gorget test for me? Just fix your gear with no MAB on at all. Then shoot a level 0 mob at 100 TP then the same procedure but with the gorget on. If the damage goes up by more than 7-8 we know there is another mod. It should only take about 10 mins if that. I think once we have that we'll know everything well enough to nail down a formula. It does seem like ~ -2 damage for every int of the mob, but with the other numbers complete I'll be able to figure that out as well I hope.

[Therin]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/28/atonementwd9.jpg
today on Freke...
I are a DD!

Now PLD BRD RDM can trio Cerberus without Excalibur!

[Callisto]

About to hop out to S Sandy and try it now kwontess, get back to you in a few.

[Kumaccio]

Now PLD BRD RDM can trio Cerberus without Excalibur!

no joke...

[Jkun]

That's what I said... o_O

P.S. I have one :3

Oh D: Then it's not nearly half as fun!

Just kidding. ;3

[Callisto]

Wild Rabbits outside of sandy, COR/WAR 64 agi w/ only RAcc gear. No neck, 507; Gorget 516. Had one random 517 that I think was without Gorget, not sure what that was all about.

[eva00r]

What's the best number that Leaden Salute can pull off ?

[kwontess]

Thats great! +9 damage from gorget means if there is a WSC its got to be fairly small. We know it should have been +7 damage from the HP, so either we're working with a larger base here than 77 or there is some small WSC.

Edit: Actually if those numbers really are right it may have a decent size AGI mod, hmm... this is getting odd.

Can you do one more test with some AGI but no MAB gear on? I just want to see if it changes at all. The more AGI the better. Sorry.

evaoor: It scales with MAB and Pluto's Staff. Every AGI adds 2.94 damage, but each int from the mob seems to take away 2 or so damage. Neglecting a mobs int it probably can't break much more than 900 assuming you went all out on MAB and AGI gear. It does better of course on mobs with low magic defense (like flans when they are spiked).

[kwontess]

Alright I have a proposed formula at 100 TP, I'll have to figure it out for 200 and 300 still, but I think this is it. There were 2 problems in discovering what the formula was. The first of which is the fact that the game uses AGI-INT instead of dAGI or dINT. This is different from any other weaponskill.

The second is Leaden Salute has a very high fTP and the fTP scales very slowly. I think I was not able to observe AGI scaling with fTP because fTP scales so slowly and the AGI mod is rather small that any difference is well within the margin of error of the mobs int, making it appear in almost every single test as though AGI doesn't appear. I apologize for being mistaken on this. I did the weaponskill dozens of times and on my target mobs adding 20-30 AGI was not having any greater impact at higher TPs.

It appears to be (where INT is the mobs INT)

2(AGI-INT)+[4.53125*(77+[.83*.25*AGI])]

Plugging in Callisto's numbers gives

128-2*INT+407 = 507

This would give a level 0 mob 14 INT though (possibly there is a -5 or something in the AGI-INT?). My numbers seem a bit odd, but I'm trying to base them off of past experience with SE mods. I need more gorget numbers to be sure. I ran a similar formula with .3 as the mod for AGI. This gives an fTP of 3.8 at 100 TP. The problem is it threw the INT calculation way off. If this one doesn't pan out I'll start investigating other options. I think it either is .25 WSC AGI mod with 4.53125 (145/32) fTP or .30 WSC mod with 3.8 fTP.

[Suiram]

Lv0 Wild Rabbits have 6 INT.

[Fwahm]

They're -1 actually since they give DC -2 exp at level 1.

[kwontess]

Ohh thats actually great! It would make the formula exactly:

2(AGI-INT-8 )+[4.53125*(77+[.83*.25*AGI])]

Considering dINT usually has a 8 thrown in it I like that very much! It seems to line up with the numbers. I'm thinking I may want something slightly larger as an fTP this gives a return of 2.940 dmg per AGI. I know its been more like 2.945 on many tests I ran. I'll go try some more (no gorget still).

Edit: Its still not lining up right There must be something else in there. Something I've overlooked.

Callisto, your numbers are very different from mine. I just did tests on lower level mobs and didn't get nearly as much damage as you did. I ended up with 504 damage with 70 AGI... So I think there must be some other stat affecting things. I'll keep cycling gear.

[Suiram]

Get rid of the -8, it's rather unlikely. Look instead for values of the fTP and/or the AGI mod that would work with just 2*(AGI-INT) in the first term. Also, is fTP for, say, 100.9 the same as 100.0? If not maybe make sure you are at exactly 100.0 for the tests.

[Callisto]

Sorry been helping w/ ToAU missions, I can help shoot a couple more tomorrow night if you don't have it all figured out by then.

[Callisto]

And I can't imagine that fractions of a TP are considered for fTP, but eh.

[kwontess]

Get rid of the -8, it's rather unlikely. Look instead for values of the fTP and/or the AGI mod that would work with just 2*(AGI-INT) in the first term. Also, is fTP for, say, 100.9 the same as 100.0? If not maybe make sure you are at exactly 100.0 for the tests.

I'm not hitting 100 on the head, I'm sitting around 100.6 or so? I think 111 TP was around +2 more damage so I'm within +1 damage. The problem is that Callisto with 64 AGI is hitting harder than I am at 70 AGI. They are hitting for 3 more damage. I can't figure out what would cause this. I am tarutaru so I have the highest CHR possible. I threw on a warwolf belt and got the same numbers so +5 vit/dex/str did nothing. I've tried mind rings numerous times with no luck. This makes me believe there must be some sort of hidden variable going on here.

[Fwahm]

Would the Skill of your weapon possibly have an effect?

[Callisto]

If it matters I was wearing exactly this:
Joyeuse/Martial/Bullet
None/PCCorGorget/None/None
Paluwhan/Crimson/Merman's/Merman's
None/None/Crimson/None

Also full MM merits.

[kwontess]

If it matters I was wearing exactly this:
Joyeuse/Martial/Bullet
None/PCCorGorget/None/None
Paluwhan/Crimson/Merman's/Merman's
None/None/Crimson/None

Also full MM merits.

Okay phew! I thought I was going crazy. You're using martial. I'm using coffinmaker at 100 TP. You should have higher damage with the TP bonus.

To answer the other question MM merits don't matter. I tried with gun belt and with actually going and adding merits to MM and it didn't change the damage.

Do you have coffinmaker if you do another test? If not thats okay, I can use martial as well, figure out the WSC at 200 TP and then figure out fTP at 100.

Actually go ahead and use either, all I need is one with full AGI build and know whether it was an actual 100 TP or 100 with martial.

Edit: I'm calling it a night. In Ronfaure I'm getting a 3.05 dmg return per AGI. Just tested it 4 times. I've never seen it do that before. I'm using the exactly same gear, no food, etc.