New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[Fwahm]

They have slashing resistance AND weakness to everything else.

[Therin]

It's not a weapon weakness, because they take double damage from magic too.

The crabs simply take 2x damage from everything, and they have slashing resistance, producing the illusion that they're weak to Piercing or Blunt.

[Raithen]

I'm not sure we could say for sure that the extra damage is actually classified as a "weakness" like normal damage weaknesses. Those monsters basically just take loads of damage from everything that they are not immune to. Whether or not they are truly "weak" to everything is hard to say.

[Fwahm]

Crabs take

0/256 from Slashing
512/256 from Blunt
512/256 from Piercing
512/256 from Magic

Those last three are weaknesses.

[Therin]

You still don't understand, lol.

[Hyan]

Frame type or current maneuvers don't seem to affect stringing pummel in any way... At least according to the quick tests I did outside wg on colibris. Would be nice if there was some special thing to it like with PLD and WAR ws's, but It's pretty solid ws even without anything special to it

[Raithen]

Honestly, to help the cause that they might truly have damage type weaknesses, I'm going to have to contradict both of you and say I'm fairly positive those mobs don't have a magic weakness. I have nuked those crabs on BLM and don't recall anything more than normal damage and a friend of mine agrees. In that case, the crabs very likely do have legitimate weaknesses to blunt and piercing.

Either way, it still sounds like King's Justice just adds onto the slashing weakness to mobs based on the fact that hounds were reported to take more damage. Thus I would imagine a slashing immune crab would take damage comparable to a crab that had just been Tomahawked before a weaponskill.

[Fwahm]

Regardless of what they take from slashing, taking more than 256/256 of a damage type is still a weakness.

Qutrubs take about double damage from everything and they are considered being weak to every type.

[kwontess]

Why not just go KJ some low level mobs where fSTR and attack are capped, one without any bonuses and one with? Maybe crawlers and mandies in saruta? 25% should be noticable after 2-3 on each, there is no way for double attack to kick in. If we are worried about fTP then you can always use SA+KJ to ensure you're getting the first hit to land.

[Therin]

Regardless of what they take from slashing, taking more than 256/256 of a damage type is still a weakness.

Qutrubs take about double damage from everything and they are considered being weak to every type.

No it's not, there's a difference in the grouping in FFXI. Damage-type weaknesses are almost always family related and apply to only damage-type, the fact that Qutrubs, Boreal Hound, and Apollyon mobs take double damage isn't the same thing.

This sounds like a semantics argument, but it isn't because KJ won't have the effect on those mobs while it will on Hounds/Birds/Skeletons (assuming the theory is correct).

Also - I can Drain II those Apollyon mobs for 600-800, so they definitely have some sort of magic weakness. @_@

[Fwahm]

Damage-type weaknesses are usually family oriented, but SE can easily change that for individual NMs and even normal mobs.

Magic is also a valid damage to be weak against, like with Puddings.

Also, I just remembered that my drains always do almost normal damage on the SE crabs (a bit higher due to dark weather).

[Suiram]

Regardless of what you want to call it, after everything is calculated, when the game gets to that final step, it multiplies by some fraction of 256. "Oh H2H on a pot? 320/256" "Slashing on an elemental? 64/256" "Magic damage on a mob with Shell 4? 200/256" "Piercing on Temperance without vertical lines? 0/256" The same thing happens on the limbus mobs, as people were trying to say. Whether you want to distinguish between "weakness" and "double damage" that's fine, but the game doesn't.

[Jkun]

Frame type or current maneuvers don't seem to affect stringing pummel in any way... At least according to the quick tests I did outside wg on colibris. Would be nice if there was some special thing to it like with PLD and WAR ws's, but It's pretty solid ws even without anything special to it

Thanks for the tests, but honestly, I'm glad the Automaton doesn't affect this.

It's bad enough we have to fuck around with certain maneuvers to allow certain frames to perform certain WS's based on their HP. Adding these formulas into the master's WS too would just get your strings all tangled up!

[eva00r]

Yeah .. quit arguing and slam your axe on some foes.

- Got full Insurgency mod, fTP value.
- Gotta open for Insurgency testing again ... for verification of some abnormally high damage.

[Hyan]

I think it's a ws I'd use when zerk is up.. If I don't have it up or minuets on I'd prolly just go HF instead. Attack makes the biggest difference really

[Therin]

Yeah .. quit arguing and slam your axe on some foes.

- Got full Insurgency mod, fTP value.
- Gotta open for Insurgency testing again ... for verification of some abnormally high damage.

I've been really happy with Insurgency, but I don't really know how it compares to Guillotine because I don't often use Scythe. I know at a straight 100% TP Guillotine seems stronger from preliminary testing. But I'm seeing 1400-1700 with over 200% TP and 1900+ when I score a double attack, and that's without Souleater/Last Resort. A 300% with full buffs did 2392 on Khimaira.

[Cratylus]

Hasn't really been tested that much. There is something up with Insurgency but nobody knows what to test. I guess people are focused on PUP's WS because it's easier to figure out.

No Souleater on this one, no DA, /SAM sub job, Minuet IV, Couerl Sub as food....few debuffs like Dia II on the mob. The WS seems to randomly do a lot more damage for no reason, most of his WSs that same night were in the 700-1k range. Niloc over on KI posted this:

Kinda odd ball question, but did you have HP unlocked or were you low on HP? Some of these ws seems to have odd mods like Atonement and possibly Ascetic's Fury with the Mob hp theory. Just wondering if your hp being low = more damage is what i'm getting at.

[eva00r]

So far, we've got

SAM, PLD, DRG, COR - done
WAR, DRK on special cases
BLM, BRD requires a bit more testing for add effect length/potency vs TP use
RNG, PUP, BST on going for fTP/mod value

Gonna need someone to Mystic Boon lv 0 mob ... with different +MND gears.

[Tidane]

Kinda odd ball question, but did you have HP unlocked or were you low on HP? Some of these ws seems to have odd mods like Atonement and possibly Ascetic's Fury with the Mob hp theory. Just wondering if your hp being low = more damage is what i'm getting at.

I did an Insurgency at red in Dynamis and didn't do more than the WS I had used at 100% on the same mob, so I don't think that's it.

[Tidane]

I've been really happy with Insurgency, but I don't really know how it compares to Guillotine because I don't often use Scythe. I know at a straight 100% TP Guillotine seems stronger from preliminary testing. But I'm seeing 1400-1700 with over 200% TP and 1900+ when I score a double attack, and that's without Souleater/Last Resort. A 300% with full buffs did 2392 on Khimaira.

Is that with the same gear you used for your Guillotines?