New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[hexagram23]

The 1600 was with no DA.

It used no attacks on me whatsoever before the WS.

I had less than 10% hp because I was testing if really low HP affected it, but that was the only WS with that much HP that was any different.

Thanks for the info. Very very odd WS. I'm currently about half way to unlocking it, so I'll test some stuff too.

[astrael]

Nice initial testing. Is there anyway to tell if it is straight -10 accuracy or 10% though? The thought of using the WS and then building up Quicksteps to stack evasion down bonuses to gain TP for another PK does sound intriguing for DNCs and endgame mobs.

I can't be entirely sure it is not % based, but I do think it is a straight -10 down just because these raptors are THF mobs, and have a huge evasion bonus, and I went from +19 accuracy to +9 accuracy in gear which seems like it would have to be a very small % of their total evasion if that were the case (somewhere near 3%). If it helps figure out whether it's a percent or not for people more familiar with mob evasion numbers, I am using 2 dagger merits, +9/+19 accuracy in gear, no DEX or skill gear, and 78 base DEX vs. a level 74 THF raptor.

[Motenten]

There was a brief report of some possible enmity weirdness going on with Mandalic Stab on Alla (yes, anecdotal, and next attempt didn't seem to show the same results). As the only person I'd really trust to test such things properly is Kaeko, I wondered if he might check some possibilities on it:

1) Enmity generated via weaponskill damage being different than expected.
2) Enmity gain and/or loss for the thf after the weaponskill is used is different than expected.
3) Enmity gain and/or loss for other party members (especially a TA'd member) after the weaponskill is used is different than expected.
4) Enmity generated via weaponskill after use of TA with no target being different than expected.

Or if not test himself, at least outline the procedure for how those items could be tested.

[Kaeko]

There was a brief report of some possible enmity weirdness going on with Mandalic Stab on Alla (yes, anecdotal, and next attempt didn't seem to show the same results). As the only person I'd really trust to test such things properly is Kaeko, I wondered if he might check some possibilities on it:

1) Enmity generated via weaponskill damage being different than expected.
2) Enmity gain and/or loss for the thf after the weaponskill is used is different than expected.
3) Enmity gain and/or loss for other party members (especially a TA'd member) after the weaponskill is used is different than expected.
4) Enmity generated via weaponskill after use of TA with no target being different than expected.

Or if not test himself, at least outline the procedure for how those items could be tested.

Can you link me to the Alla thread?

Simply determining it's different than the 'norm' isn't that hard but I just want to hear what they supposedly did.

[eva00r]

Amusingly, otherwiki has its mods listed as STR_30% DEX_70% with undetermined fTP. Huge difference <_<

This is LOL. STR has absolutely no effect to Mandalic Stab.

[Psion]

I just got my Inferno claws now, but need 7k ws points to get pummel. Once I get enough I'll come and ask on some tips of how to test its modifiers since no one seems to have done so yet. AFK {long time}, pwning EP golems.

[Lordwafik]

Amusingly, otherwiki has its mods listed as STR_30% DEX_70% with undetermined fTP. Huge difference <_<

DEX70 would have shown me better numbers than shark bite.

[Motenten]

@Kaeko:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...61544026146530

and another couple posts by the same author (Eviltedy) a bit further down the page.

[miokomioko]

I just got my Inferno claws now, but need 7k ws points to get pummel. Once I get enough I'll come and ask on some tips of how to test its modifiers since no one seems to have done so yet. AFK {long time}, pwning EP golems.

Or just ask Jkun nicely to do it.

[Judai]

Well, remember PUP is only C Skill rating, though I have 8 merits into it bumping it to 241. I've got way more acc than is needed (PCC, Usukane, Enkidu etc.), I think about 55 on TP build and 40ish on WS.

I'm doing pretty constant numbers on T mobs (700-800 DMG) with Pummel by using Chiv Chain, but once I grab my Yovra organ I'll see if Gorget is any better.

eh, so you have less Acc then Monk does but somehow you think using a neck with less Acc is going to be better? I don't get your point. Gorget is 10Acc to every hit and bonus dmg to first hit.

[Kaeko]

OK these are the possibilities I saw from the person's post...

1. a debuff on the monster that increases Enimity Gained

2. Get a larger amount of Enmity to the THF (Potentially TA transfer would work)

3. Monster loses some enimity against the player it currently targets.

I have noticed this recently and i will begin testing this more.

1) a debuff on the monster that increases Enimity Gained

This one is hard to test because enmity testing is generally based on your ability to gain CE/VE on a mob relative to someone else's ability to do the same thing on the same mob. If the debuff occurs on the mob, then it is difficult to test. The only plausible way I can think of doing this would be to see how many of X spell it took to reach the CE cap, because I am assuming this has to remain static. I do know a way to test this, but it has to be done LAST. So come back to this one after if the others show negative results (this one seems very unlikely though).

If you know some1 with atonement as well this is a very easy test though.


2) Get a larger amount of Enmity to the THF (Potentially TA transfer would work)

This one seems like a reasonable thing. It's also very easy to test. First and hardest thing you and your partner will need is to find a mob that one get 1 shot by a mand. stab. I don't know how low you can get the damage on this but lower the better so you can hopefully test on something lvl20 and below. Remember you need to take 0 damage to make easy tests. This test starts by assuming you have 2 players of 0 enmity enhancement and can take 0 damage from a mob that won't be 1 shot by stab.

Store 100TP on your THF
Both players Stoneskin and hopefully Phalanx too
RDM pulls a mob with Dispel (520CE)
THF uses dispel on mob (RDM 520CE, THF 320CE)
THF uses Mand. Stab (RDM 520 CE, THF 320+X CE)
RDM balances out CE using various spells and abilities.

I would recommend RDM sub BRD (lvl1 fine) since you can 'step up' in 20CE increments with a song (40CE if it hits both players remember). Just note how much CE was generated by the damage dealt by stab. It should fit the damage formula we have found. If it varies, then there is some special property to it. This is not something unique - the Relic RNG WS - Namas Arrow has fixed 160 CE 480 VE regardless of damage. This tests the possibility that it is fixed or some multiple of the 'typical' damage.


3) Monster loses some enmity against the player it currently targets.

This one is tricky - do test 2 first. I say it's only tricky because it is hard to find an easy test that specifically attempts to show this effect.

So basically try to test if the CE/VE values of stab are based on the damage formula first. If it is not, the test here (@#2) should flesh it out.

[Jkun]

eh, so you have less Acc then Monk does but somehow you think using a neck with less Acc is going to be better? I don't get your point. Gorget is 10Acc to every hit and bonus dmg to first hit.

Read what I wrote. I don't have a WS gorget for Pummel yet. The reason I've been using Chiv up until this point is because it boosted Dragon Kick's STR mod.

Or just ask Jkun nicely to do it.

I've only tested in small bursts mainly due to this week being insanely busy with events (That I never go PUP to), but I seem to be doing more consistant damage with a combination of STR+Acc than without STR, so that has to be a partial mod.

However, due to the pretty shitty selection of omgwtfSTR gear available to PUP, it's hard to give any real feedback (I think I have +26 on WS build, and that's with Usukane and shit).

Which lead me to believe, what if it's actually the same mods as Asuran Fists? (STR10% DEX10%). I mean, it's got the same properties, and there was maybe 50-100 difference in DMG between TP gear and STR gear when I did these tests.

As for the DEX itself, well I'm pretty sure that's got more do to with the fact it pushes the WS into being a critical hit rather than a decent WS mod. There's actually a pretty good selection of DEX gear out there. It's even a hidden effect on Animators as mioko posted a while back.

It's a lot like Asuran Fists, which is scary in a good way, but that also means we'd need to focus on Att+ gear over STR (that of which PUP lacks a lot of unless you include relic cape, AF+1, Att+ rings, etc.), and as much DEX/Acc as possible to crit it/land all hits.

[Teorem]

Omniscience is definitely Gravitation/Transfixion and has no other level 2 skillchain properties. It's definitely a dark-elemental base; uses on a Dark Elemental were resisted by 95%, and the damage was increased by use of a Pluto's Staff.

A damage formula was covered earlier in this thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...ce#post2228417 . Adding 1 MND adds roughly 2.5 damage and the target's MND is taken into account (as was shown by the tests on that page).

The "Magic Attack Down" effect lasts: 1:00 (100% TP), 2:00 (200% TP), 3:00 (300% TP)

The effect appears to be about -8% (-75-80/1024, I couldn't nail it down exactly with the targets I was using) assuming it works just like a negative Magic Attack Bonus.

[eva00r]

Omniscience Updated.
1 Hit, Darkness Magic Damage, 2.0 fTP mod and MND_30% Modifier.

Thanks for testing.

10/20 WS DONE - only 10 to go !

[eva00r]

According to solsovly's post

Primal Rend appears to be
1 Hit, Light Element damage, 4.0 fTP and CHR_30% Modification

11/20 - Only 9 to go!

EDIT
Can somebody seriously test Garland of Bliss ? I need only a few data to derive the formula. You can use any weapon except Light or Dark staff.

- All of your stats
- Don't use WS in Light or Dark day
- Damage done Naked vs Lv 0 Mob
- Damage done +10 INT gear vs Lv 0 mob
- Damage done +10 MND gear vs Lv 0 mob
- Damage done +10 CHR gear vs Lv 0 mob
- Damage done with errant body (+10 INT, MND, CHR) vs Lv 0 mob

[Tachi]

I know for sure that Garland of Bliss is affected by both MND and STR (yes, an elemental WS with STR modifier)
base stats : 52 str / 70 mnd, earthsday, vs tiny mandragora

364 (naked, beside baha staff)
364 (agi / vit / int / chr +3~5)
371 (52 str +10)
391 (70 mnd +10)
395 (70 mnd +10, 52 str +10)

Is it enough to calculate the mnd/str modifier %?

[Teorem]

Garland of Bliss appears to have STR and MND modifiers.

Me (SMN/THF): STR62, DEX64, VIT57, AGI66, INT70, MND65, CHR65

vs Huge Hornet (South Gustaberg):

No equipment: 361 (101TP)
MAB+10: 397 (Yigit Gomlek, Moldavite Earring)

using first-tier (non-decaying) Etudes:

STR+ 9,VIT+5: 365 (101%)
DEX+ 9,VIT+5: 361 (101%)
VIT+14: 361 (101%)
AGI+ 9,VIT+5: 361 (101%)
INT+ 9,VIT+5: 361 (101%)
MND+ 9,VIT+5: 383 (101%)
CHR+ 9,VIT+5: 361 (106%)

other tests (excluding other stats besides STR and MND):

STR+21: 372 (101%, may be STR+22 due to decay of Herculean Etude)
STR+5: 363 (105%)
MND+5: 373 (101%)
MND+15: 397 (101%)
STR+5, MND+10: 387 (101%)
STR+7, MND+10: 390 (101%)
STR+7, MND+15: 402 (101%)
STR+9, MND+15: 404 (101%)

Edit: Too late, but just more numbers to crunch.

[eva00r]

Thanks both of you. The more data I can get, the more correct formula will be.

Garland of Bliss
1 Hit, 2.0 fTP, STR_30% and MND_40%, using dMND not dSTR.

12/20 DONE!

Next would be Trueflight .. any RNG wanna test it out for BG's sake ?

- All of your stats
- Don't use WS in Light or Dark day
- Damage done Naked vs Lv 0 Mob
- Damage done +10 AGI gear vs Lv 0 mob
- Damage done +10 MND gear vs Lv 0 mob
- Damage done +10 INT gear vs Lv 0 mob

[Theytak]

bsphil and I(Professor Jinte), from the alla pup board have been running the numbers over his Stringing Pummels in west ron, not a huge sample size, but from what I can tell, don't assume the fTP is 1.0, because what I ended up getting was 0.9 fTP, 35% str mod, dex didn't seem to effect it, but phil wasn't changing much dex gear in or out(+7 when he wasn't naked)

his first post
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...45436144403690

just giving the other testers something to work with, and looking to see if anyone else got/gets/can get something similar

[Kikaru]

gah i passed on 2 killerbows already -__-'' if another drops ill pick it up and unlock it i guess.