New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[hexagram23]

THIS, plus 100000000000 bonus points for knowing it is "couldn't care less".

Ramses hit the nail directly on the head when he said that it is a new WS, people want it to be super special, and sadly it isn't.

Insurgency is nothing more than a gimp guillotine that makes light. I have probably used it about 300 times and I have never seen one of these mysterious "damage spikes".

It does pretty reliable damage (consistently less than guillotine) and it is good for making light. Outside of SCing, you are better off using Guillotine. Period.

inb4 people who don't have insurgency flame me for pointing out something that is blatantly obvious if you have ever tried it

So let me make sure I got this straight....

You say "it's a gimp Guillo that makes Light" and "I did 300 WSs and haven't seen the spike damage".....

And we're supposed to listen to you, why exactly? How is your word any more solid than the numerous DRKs saying the exact opposite? Who are you?

[hexagram23]

Doesn't anyone else think that this is entirely intentional on SE's part to make most of these new WS suck without the aftermath effect?

I mean yeah, it does blow that some of them like Insurgency aren't amazing without it and that much better with it, but it makes sense I suppose from a balance stand point. I also think SE did it to encourage people to get the new Mythic Weapons. Really sucks for Insurgency though since Liberator is garbage compared to Apocalypse. I'll take my 10 haste and 50% HP Drain from Catastrophe kthxbai.

At least some of them (Rana, Drakesbane, Atonement) are pretty damned good on their own.

How would Insurgency be any better with Liberator? How does it "suck", exactly? At the very least it's a much prettier Guillotine that makes Light.

I have no idea what the spike damage is about, and honestly I haven't seen it myself yet. However, the only way it could not exist at this point, is if there is a grand conspiracy of DRKs who don't know each other, across all the servers, all united to purport this lie, for whatever reason.

Basically, too many people are saying they've seen it for it not to be real.

[Enygma55]

I think its pretty Obvious that Insurgency's secret is not affected by pure stats so its hard to test without real tests in the actual field outside of a merit pt.

And the odds of it being mislabeled is very very unlikely. These WS have some special property that sets it apart, you just have to find it. Some WS are easy to find where some might require more unconventional triggers.

For Insurgency Im leaning towards a retaliation effect during battle where taking dmg triggers the spike dmg or maybe the dmg the mob deals to party members (including yourself) as some kind of counter. I have no data to prove this but this is just a theory to get people on the proper train of thought.

[Jkun]

More importantly, why the fuck would you chose to upgrade Liberator over Apoc? Are you that fucking stupid?

[eva00r]

Apoc is epic and fucking win seriously. It is by far the best upgrade piece for DRK.

[Acorn]

Who are you?

I am a DRK who has been trying to find a good reason to use insurgency since I got it.

[Nameless]

Honestly I will take the occasionally attack twice (if it is 50% like all others with the same trait) over 10% haste and the base damage anyday. But that's just me. Cata is a weak ws compare to insurgency (don't try to justify it, it is weak, and insurgency seems to do decent damage on HNM, so you can forget about the one hit ws being better for HNM arguement on this one). And with apoc you almost have to use Cata for that 10% haste, while liberator forces you to use insurgency which is at the least slightly better than Cata in term of damage (unsure of the att/acc bonus from aftermath). And if you think 50% DA isn't as good as 10% haste then I don't know what to say. Yes, haste is always superior than DA, but not when it is 50% vs 10% (even if you count the fact that you probably won't stack DA with Liberator, it is still a good 40% DA increase).

[Jkun]

Honestly I will take the occasionally attack twice (if it is 50% like all others with the same trait) over 10% haste and the base damage anyday. But that's just me. Cata is a weak ws compare to insurgency (don't try to justify it, it is weak, and insurgency seems to do decent damage on HNM, so you can forget about the one hit ws being better for HNM arguement on this one). And with apoc you almost have to use Cata for that 10% haste, while liberator forces you to use insurgency which is at the least slightly better than Cata in term of damage (unsure of the att/acc bonus from aftermath). And if you think 50% DA isn't as good as 10% haste then I don't know what to say. Yes, haste is always superior than DA, but not when it is 50% vs 10% (even if you count the fact that you probably won't stack DA with Liberator, it is still a good 40% DA increase).

You say that, but you're forgetting 2 things:

1) It could be fucking 5-10% DA. Nobody knows.
2) SE are yet to buff Z Relics as promised.

So just hold your horses before jumping to WHAT'S BETTER OMG.

[Nameless]

Yea, that's why I said if it is 50%, but there is no reason that it shouldn't be since there isn't exception yet for weapon with those traits that are not 50%.

We also don't know yet what augment absorb will do. It could be something like absorb will last for the whole fight, who knows, but it wouldn't be too broken if you consider enhance jump means all jumps are critical for drg's myth weapon.

[Eruantalon]

Has anyone tested Insurgency based on max hp? Would explain why a taru wouldn't get as high dmg as another race. Would also explain the spike dmg based on a drain II prior. Easy enough to test, but just curious

[Callisto]

I tried digging through but couldn't find anything on it, did anyone get around to testing Gorgets on Atonement, if it possibly changes the enmity > damage rate or something? Just wondering if I need to spend an extra inventory spot on Light Gorget or if I'm set with Soil.

[David Banner]

You say that, but you're forgetting 2 things:

1) It could be fucking 5-10% DA. Nobody knows.
2) SE are yet to buff Z Relics as promised.

So just hold your horses before jumping to WHAT'S BETTER OMG.

I do hope SE sticks to their promise in terms of buffing Z.Relics, I have Spharai and the weapon it self over all is great, but FH (Final Heaven) really sux big time if you dont have SATA+60%VIT set up for it and the DOT compared to Destroyers has been marginal, Sphrarai still stands above but only slightly...and now there is Shenlong's Bhagnakas which in paper from what it seems can out do it So I hope SE does come through with this, I mean if they can boost up SAM, WAR, 2H, DRG, SCH jobs when all those jobs except SCH have not been as boosted up as they are now way back when then I would think SE should at least make Z.Relics WS the best WS of that job and that nothing can top it noh?

[laverna]

Doesn't anyone else think that this is entirely intentional on SE's part to make most of these new WS suck without the aftermath effect?

I mean yeah, it does blow that some of them like Insurgency aren't amazing without it and that much better with it, but it makes sense I suppose from a balance stand point. I also think SE did it to encourage people to get the new Mythic Weapons. Really sucks for Insurgency though since Liberator is garbage compared to Apocalypse. I'll take my 10 haste and 50% HP Drain from Catastrophe kthxbai.

At least some of them (Rana, Drakesbane, Atonement) are pretty damned good on their own.

You gotta added Mystic Boon and Stringing Pummel in there for sure. Dunno if you have read the whole thread about what some of the Other WS perform for the less known/Less popular jobs.

[Malacite]

I don't know all the names ^^; just put a few examples out. Mystic Boon is the Club WS right?



EDIT: Oh and if you don't know why Insurgency is better with Liberator... you need your eyes checked.

Is SE buffing all the relics? (I don't see why they'd buff shield and horn lol) The clear intent of the Relic weapons is to be the highest DPS weapons you can get. This is what SE said, they are the most powerful weapons in the game and should be treated as such while the Mythics have comparable power and enhance your job. Also, Catastrophe isn't that bad. It has a 3.0 modifier like all the other Relic WS which means with /THF you are going to hit much harder much more often that you would with martial scythe and 200 TP Spiral Hell. And since half the damage is absorbed it means you can use Soul Eater freely every time. Oh and let's not forget the occasional 2.5 dmg proc (which sadly can't happen on WS... maybe they will change that Oo)


I just started questing the Amanomurakumo myself (wishing I'd gotten on it years ago, I would have had it by now) and to know SE is gonna buff that thing even more is... well.... <(O _ O)>

Kaiten alone is already ridiculously powerful...

[Jkun]

Stringing Pummel is fucking pant creaming even without Kenkonken >_>; So I doubt all these WSs are going to be buffed on the weapon. Aftermath is a whole new ball game, though, but this thread isn't about that.

[Ramses]

Has anyone tested Insurgency based on max hp? Would explain why a taru wouldn't get as high dmg as another race. Would also explain the spike dmg based on a drain II prior. Easy enough to test, but just curious

Well I am elvaan so hp isn't the issue. It's not mob level or def either. I was meriting on VT-IT trolls last week and consistently getting 1200-2k guillotines and insurgency couldn't break 1k (usually not even close). The only other thing I can think of is damage rating. Since I'm at 103 damage and most others are considerably lower (as is liberator), possibly lower damage rating = higher insurgency? Let me say that this would make absolutely no sense to me and I highly doubt it, but I am out of ideas on this ws.

[hexagram23]

Oh and if you don't know why Insurgency is better with Liberator... you need your eyes checked.

I have no idea what you were trying to say but the way you worded it makes no sense.

You didn't say "it would get better", you said "it sucks without Liberator". Which makes no sense because it doesn't suck. Also you said that it would be better with the finished Mythic Weapon when you have no idea how potent the Aftermath effect is.

[hexagram23]

Well I am elvaan so hp isn't the issue. It's not mob level or def either. I was meriting on VT-IT trolls last week and consistently getting 1200-2k guillotines and insurgency couldn't break 1k (usually not even close). The only other thing I can think of is damage rating. Since I'm at 103 damage and most others are considerably lower (as is liberator), possibly lower damage rating = higher insurgency? Let me say that this would make absolutely no sense to me and I highly doubt it, but I am out of ideas on this ws.

I assume the base damage on Liberator is lower because it has "occasionally attacks twice" on it.

No offense but 1200-2000 Guillotines "consistently" on VT-IT Trolls sounds sort of far-fetched, unless you were /WAR and using Souleater. Especially considering Guillotine has, at best, did maybe 100 more damage than Insurgency for everyone else, if not exactly the same/more damage than Guillotine.

A discrepancy of 900-1000 damage between the two WSs is pretty much unheard of. Again, no offense, but nobody else is getting these numbers besides you.

[Not Kuno]

No offense but 1200-2000 Guillotines "consistently" on VT-IT Trolls sounds sort of far-fetched, unless you were /WAR and using Souleater.

Maybe he parties with 3 bards and 2 corsairs.

[Malacite]

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Liberator

Liberator RareExclusive
(Scythe) All Races
DMG: 93 Delay: 528
Magic Accuracy +20
Augments "Absorb" spells
"Insurgency"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk.
Occasionally attacks twice
Lv. 75 DRK

That's what I meant. Using Insurgency with Liberator to trigger the Aftermath. Also, it really sucks PUP can't use Destroyers now that they have a multi-hit critical ; ;