New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[Lordwafik]

Insurgency = a guillotine you can actually make skillchains with.
Trade off some damage for the potential to have more damage come from SC damage.

/end

I feel mandalic stab is the same too, it's given me the ability to make light off Fragmentation (Shark bite makes light off fusion). Not always amazing dmg but potential to do more in SC dmg where the other wouldn't.

[Jkun]

Insurgency = a guillotine you can actually make skillchains with.
Trade off some damage for the potential to have more damage come from SC damage.

/end

I feel mandalic stab is the same too, it's given me the ability to make light off Fragmentation (Shark bite makes light off fusion). Not always amazing dmg but potential to do more in SC dmg where the other wouldn't.

That's what we've been trying to say but to most meatheads as usual IF IT DUN DO BIG DAMAGE NUMMERS DEN IT'S A SHIT WS!!!111

[Seph13]

Insurgency = a guillotine you can actually make skillchains with.
Trade off some damage for the potential to have more damage come from SC damage.

/end

I feel mandalic stab is the same too, it's given me the ability to make light off Fragmentation (Shark bite makes light off fusion). Not always amazing dmg but potential to do more in SC dmg where the other wouldn't.

Tachi: Rana seems to be for SC dmg also, unless theres a hidden mod I'm not seeing that increases its dmg.

[TummieGaruda]

So is Leadan Salute really mediocre unless you're using it on some mob with a weakness to magic? Please give me some excuse to use a weapon skill that utilizes a laser in it's graphic.

Leaden Salute is useful in Dynamis or against mobs that have a weakness to magic (Slimes, Puddings, etc).

In Dynamis (And limbus) you have double darkness weather to boost the elemental damage on Leaden Salute. In situations where you have TP and the dynamis mobs use Perfect Dodge or Invincible, with the proper rolls and agi/mab build you can hit mobs for 600+ damage. Being that the weaponskill is purely darkness based, it goes right thru PD and Invicible and you can fire off double quick draws for extra damage.

On Slimes in Dynamis, I was able to hit about 850 ish damage with Leaden Salute, and 530 on the Mega Boss, all without using a Dark Staff. Outside of Dynamis/Limbus/Nyzul Pudding Floors, I have yet to find any other usage for it.

[Lordwafik]

SE works in baby steps, I can see them introducing new WS to use in one patch to help everyone SC with each other, and then in the next patch I can see them adding bonus exp point to skillchain/magic burst parties.

What what? Qutrub might be viable exp as well as some crazy beastmen zones? get out !

One can dream of not fighting colibri forever.

[Ramses]

That's what we've been trying to say but to most meatheads as usual IF IT DUN DO BIG DAMAGE NUMMERS DEN IT'S A SHIT WS!!!111

No, this is not what people have been saying and not what the question was. The question was about spike damage and if insurgency can out damage guillotine. Nobody has complained about or disputed the usefulness of being able to to do light. A lot of people thought there might be more to it and were trying to figure out if it were so. Maybe try to have an adult conversation next time.

[hexagram23]

Insurgency = a guillotine you can actually make skillchains with.
Trade off some damage for the potential to have more damage come from SC damage.

/end

That's awesome except for the fact that nobody SCs any more. Also not all the new WSs do "eh" damage so I dunno why'd they'd make 3-4 WSs totally awesome to SC with, and others like Atonement, Drakesbane, King's Justice, etc. good without relying on SCs.

If this was, I dunno, 4 years ago Insurgency would be awesome. Unless they do something drastic like increase EXP from SCs like you said, half the new WSs are pretty pointless.

[hexagram23]

That's what we've been trying to say but to most meatheads as usual IF IT DUN DO BIG DAMAGE NUMMERS DEN IT'S A SHIT WS!!!111

I'd like to introduce to the year 2008.

This is the era of TP burns/zerging/fast kills....so yeah, you use the WS that does the most damage 9 times out of 10. Giving jobs a new WS that doesn't outdamage the old WSs sadly makes half the new WSs obsolete, because everyone wants shit dead ASAP and nobody SCs anymore.

I'm not saying this is right, but that's how it is. SCs have very few applications nowadays.

Lastly like Ramses said, the reason I keep asking "what else is there to this WS?" isn't because I want MOAR DAMAGE, it's because this WS is off....it doesn't make sense, and the damage is all over the place. Also, this WS has been out about a month and we still have zero answers as to why the spike damage happens....or why it only happens for some people.

[Yugl]

Race related tricks!

[Lordwafik]

I didn't realise that absolutely everything was TP burned and there was no middle ground, especially when killing things with just 4 people and having a big skillchain go off after two strong weaponskills is as if a third person used a weaponskill.

My bad.

[hexagram23]

I didn't realise that absolutely everything was TP burned and there was no middle ground, especially when killing things with just 4 people and having a big skillchain go off after two strong weaponskills is as if a third person used a weaponskill.

My bad.

No offense but it seems like you're just saying stuff to play devil's advocate. You seriously think SE gave us gimp WSs so as to make SCs a more attractive option in low man stuff?

I realize this is SE we're talking about but that sounds sort of convoluted.

If that was the point of the new WSs why are some of them awesome, and others extremely "meh"? Or do they specifically expect certain jobs like DRK and THF with new "meh" WSs to low man stuff? It doesn't really make any sense.

If I had 3-4 people low manning something they'd most likely be using their best WSs, not a "meh" one just for the sake of a SC going off, especially since a BLM isn't always around.

Lastly, it's possible for something to have nice SC properties and not be a "meh" WS. You know, like Spinning Slash and Cross Reaper.

[shukuffxi]

I'm not a melee heavy player, but I know in my LS, when we meripo, the melee will SC plenty, by virtue of having TP at similar times, just for extra SC damage (obviously they are using good WS, and not holding TP), but I don't see much Darkness, or Light I guess, if stuff like Rana and Insurgency can put up very similar WS #s and SC to Lv.3 SCs, they have valid use. Now if only Expiacion chained with Disseverment

[Max™]

I didn't realize that melees didn't understand holding TP for a second or two if you know someone else will drop a WS, then you drop a WS, get an SC, and holy fucking shitballs on a goddamn stick, you do more damage!

Plus, most of these WSes actually get better with more TP, and SC's have been buffed quite a bit.

When's the last time you saw a Fragmentation? I've seen em do 600+ Dmg on Merit mobs, definitely worth "wasting" a swing for.


THIS IS WHY YOU GOT CALLED MEATHEADS, AND WHY I'M CALLING YOU FUCKTARDS!

[Lordwafik]

I'm really not playing devil's advocate. Whenever I do any stuff which is generally lowman, and someone TPs, I try to WS with something that corresponds to make more damage happen, maybe I am biased because I am a thief, and anything I close results in huge skillchain numbers. I am showing you that there are people who can see an opportunity where other people see a burden.

Nothing in this game is black and white. "Shit is situational" is FFXI's unofficial motto..

But hey keep complaining, I don't care.

If I had 3-4 people low manning something they'd most likely be using their best WSs, not a "meh" one just for the sack of a SC going off, especially since a BLM isn't always around.

I wouldn't call the new WS completely "meh" , they're prime examples of what I'm saying. Sacrifice 200 dmg, for a potential mirrored lvl3 skillchain. It's a gamble, it's a risk. In salvage I gamble a lot with my weaponskills, despite me having mercy stroke, there are times I'll most definitely choose to shark bite / mandalic stab instead depending what WS or SC I am seeing happen in front of my eyes.


Understandable back in the days of rampage, sure , use rampage nonstop > skillchain, but things have changed and many of the 2hand weapons can produce beautiful numbers in SC dmg by sacrificing only a little.

[Max™]

This is how obvious this point is: WAFIK AND I AGREE COMPLETELY.

Think about that.

[ronin sparthos]

Anyone have any solid info on Trueflight?

I know it has 100% accuracy and is magical in nature but has anyone toyed with it and found some interesting info on it?

[hexagram23]

I'm really not playing devil's advocate. Whenever I do any stuff which is generally lowman, and someone TPs, I try to WS with something that corresponds to make more damage happen, maybe I am biased because I am a thief, and anything I close results in huge skillchain numbers. I am showing you that there are people who can see an opportunity where other people see a burden.

Nothing in this game is black and white. "Shit is situational" is FFXI's unofficial motto..

But hey keep complaining, I don't care.



I wouldn't call the new WS completely "meh" , they're prime examples of what I'm saying. Sacrifice 200 dmg, for a potential mirrored lvl3 skillchain. It's a gamble, it's a risk. In salvage I gamble a lot with my weaponskills, despite me having mercy stroke, there are times I'll most definitely choose to shark bite / mandalic stab instead depending what WS or SC I am seeing happen in front of my eyes.


Understandable back in the days of rampage, sure , use rampage nonstop > skillchain, but things have changed and many of the 2hand weapons can produce beautiful numbers in SC dmg by sacrificing only a little.

Fair enough, but that still doesn't explain why the WS does 1700 on LAC, or 2.3k on Khimaira, when the mods, etc. are so low....or why it randomly does 200-300 more/less for no apparent reason.

I don't want people to become complacent....it's not a bad WS but just resigning it to "ah well, it's a decent WS, we can use it occasionally if another player has TP to SC" will make people lose interest in finding out why it does what it does. It's hard enough getting solid info on these WSs without people shrugging and going "eh, let's just use it for SCs, since that's all it's good for".

[Lordwafik]

This is how obvious this point is: WAFIK AND I AGREE COMPLETELY.

Think about that.

What is more frightening is you did not say /dnc or Great Axe in those posts!

[Byrthnoth]

I was /dnc-ing with my Great Axe in Castle O [S] the other day, and then I found 5 dollars.

In unrelated news, a BST on KI has been putting out 1k+ numbers with Primal Rend. That's pretty hot for farming, especially considering Temp Axe. Too bad BSTs can't farm Virtues Stones well!! I wonder how it would do on merit monsters.
http://killingifrit.com/forums/index...142863&st=1076

[Astarael]

using insurgency on faf last night, i was going a consistent 750ish, lowest 500, spiking to 1000 a few times, a few 800s and 900s. I did have dual minuet, chaos roll and hunters roll, but i usually have one or the other with guillotine, and it never performs even close to this.

also, i was ending a light skillchain for the blm's. everyone was happy.