New WS Properties/Modifier/Damage Testing

[hexagram23]

About Primal Rend

Siyual over at KI apparently was able to break over 1100 on a TW mob with a CHR setup.

http://killingifrit.com/forums/index...142863&st=1060

However, using a very similar setup on my bst (I am short 9 CHR pieces and novio compared to the setup posted) I have not been able to break 700 on Too Weak mobs. I think that either it was a weird glitch or that maybe some mythic weaponskills have some type of hidden bonus

Is anybody from this board going to Fan Fest? The Dev Team needs to get questioned about these WSs and I doubt a random person attending will ask.

What WSs are "weird" so far? I think King's Justice is one, Insurgency is definitely one, and now Primal Rend. "Weird" meaning there is something off about them.

Oh and one more thing....is Primal Rend influenced by MAB? I see people using MAB and CHR for it on the BST forum.

[hexagram23]

Ok I tested random Absorbs and Insurgency, it had 0 effect on the damage. Did Absorb 4-5 spells and no difference.

[TummieGaruda]

They are magic based weaponskills and so magic attack bonus adds a direct multiplier to damage. Subbing /RDM (MAB and having access to cures) along with Moldy would boost damage by 25%. It is similar to Leaden Salute and why it is best to try to roll Wizard's Roll before firing one off to boost MAB. I personally was able to hit 850 Leaden Salute on Dynamis Slimes. Looking at those damage figures again for Primal Rend that was posted, the only thing I can think of to get it that high would be /BLM with a COR doing Wizard's Roll...

[Max™]

Stringing Pummel maybe got a minimum/average dmg increase from boosting your crit rate?

[TummieGaruda]

I have a sneaking suspicion that the Mythic WS's may not follow the old weaponskill rule of: "You can't critical during the weaponskill unless forced via Sneak Attack, Mighty Strikes, or if it says so in the help message".

Would it be crazy to think all Mythic Weaponskills had a hidden flat 5% Critical Hit rate? It would explain a lot of these mysterious spikes and also 2/4 hits of Insurgency landing for the same amount as 4/4 hits.

If we could get a large enough sample of Insurgency Damage done to the same mob and report TP returns for each weaponskill and the stats the player had, we could use the damage formula to work out the average damage for each hit, and then start calculating in criticals for each hit to see if it matches up with a spike in damage should one occur in the sample. I think that is the only way we can get down to the bottom of this, or the ws's are just glitched.

[Kroot]

Ascetic's Fury is 50% STR 50% VIT fTP 1

75 mnk/thf no weapon 292 skill SAWS lvl 1 mobs

str74 vit73
312
312
303
297
309
316
316
323

str74+34 vit73
362
352
367
362
353
354
329
358

str74 vit73+36
369
358
354
364
349

mnd dex agi has no increase when stacked 30+

[TummieGaruda]

Ok more Primal Rend Testing...

I was able to get close to 1200 damage on a Too Weak mob. I found that yes, the Sea Obi's do work with magic weaponskills that have an element. So that means Primal Rend, True Flight, and Garland of Bliss damage can be boosted with Korin Obi, and Leaden Salute, Omniscience, and Vidohunir with Anrin Obi.

In my test, I subbed /BLM with Moldivite Earring (+29 MAB total) and only used +31 CHR because I was in a hurry to catch lightsday before it changed. I asked my friend to bring her SCH along to place Aurastorm on me so that I had the Day and Weather Bonus combined in one to give me +25% damage. At 300% TP and burn applied to the mob this is the result (See attached screenshot).

This means that Leaden Salute would work wonders in Dynamis with Anrin Obi due to double darkness giving +25%. Trueflight and Primal Rend would work best in Temenos with Korin Obi due to double Light. As soon as its lightsday again I will test again on Campaign Mobs as I was only able to do about 560 ish on those without any elemental buffs.

[Jkun]

Stringing Pummel maybe got a minimum/average dmg increase from boosting your crit rate?

Also, Psion, silly question, but did you check your TP after each WS to make sure all 6 hits landed? Though I dun think that's a problem on that level of mob. :<

[arus2001]

Ok more Primal Rend Testing...

I was able to get close to 1200 damage on a Too Weak mob. I found that yes, the Sea Obi's do work with magic weaponskills that have an element. So that means Primal Rend, True Flight, and Garland of Bliss damage can be boosted with Korin Obi, and Leaden Salute, Omniscience, and Vidohunir with Anrin Obi.

In my test, I subbed /BLM with Moldivite Earring (+29 MAB total) and only used +31 CHR because I was in a hurry to catch lightsday before it changed. I asked my friend to bring her SCH along to place Aurastorm on me so that I had the Day and Weather Bonus combined in one to give me +25% damage. At 300% TP and burn applied to the mob this is the result (See attached screenshot).

This means that Leaden Salute would work wonders in Dynamis with Anrin Obi due to double darkness giving +25%. Trueflight and Primal Rend would work best in Temenos with Korin Obi due to double Light. As soon as its lightsday again I will test again on Campaign Mobs as I was only able to do about 560 ish on those without any elemental buffs.

Was messing with Omniscience a bit last night, but what has you figuring Anrin Obi would be the choice sash? Most I managed was 567 on a Goobuue in Rolanberry, so while not the best test mobs, I couldn't really tell a difference between an Voidstorm/Obi and Penitent's for the +INT (if I remember right and the WS is INT based along with MATK). Harder stuff like Campaign mobs saw a drop in damage, usually like 216 for things that might've had Shell or native MDEF, but 316 on presumably INT-deficient job enemies (WAR, SAM, etc.).

If nobody's done level 1 testing, I suppose I could to kill time. Not that many really give a shit about a mage's WS potential.

[Lordwafik]

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/?topic_id=749&lp=1

people breaking latents in level sync! Sorry if old, but I know this'll help people.

[Toth]

Also, Psion, silly question, but did you check your TP after each WS to make sure all 6 hits landed? Though I dun think that's a problem on that level of mob. :<

Yeah, you most likely only got one hit of the WS to proc but the fact that the damage increased is promising. Plus, it makes sense that DEX would be a modifier since PUP has access to a ton of job specific DEX gear and of course, more DEX = more accuracy and higher critical rates. I am building my SP ws set around DEX and I will do some tests the next time I am invited to a merit party.

[Khajit]

I'm curious. If you unlock the weapon in a lv sync does that mean you can use the WS no matter what lv you are until you "complete" the quest while equipping the weapon?
It would make a sweet weapon if you had tachi rana at lv 30 on sam etc.

[Seraph]

I'm curious. If you unlock the weapon in a lv sync does that mean you can use the WS no matter what lv you are until you "complete" the quest while equipping the weapon?
It would make a sweet weapon if you had tachi rana at lv 30 on sam etc.

I was kinda wondering about this myself. I unlocked everything at 75, and already completed the quest, so I just assumed the WS was level 75 only, but I haven't tried level syncing down yet to test.

I don't have an answer to your question, but I am sort of curious myself. Is the 'gaining points in Level Sync' trick just useful for adding some points to your total? Does the WS even appear when you are synced?

[Miraun]

I was kinda wondering about this myself. I unlocked everything at 75, and already completed the quest, so I just assumed the WS was level 75 only, but I haven't tried level syncing down yet to test.

I don't have an answer to your question, but I am sort of curious myself. Is the 'gaining points in Level Sync' trick just useful for adding some points to your total? Does the WS even appear when you are synced?

Second hand information, but I heard that it will NOT appear until you uncap.

[Lyramion]

You have to zone anyway for WeaponChecker to update. Maybe that got confused with unsyncing?

[Muinaru]

Figure I would post my little testing of Ascetic's Fury after getting it last night. I was messing around in Kuftal for about an hour as mnk/war with my NPC.

First Ascetic's I did out of the gate was around 900, my NPC gave me Protect/Shell/Haste, and Dia'd/Slowed the crab.

After that though, it only was doing 650-750. Then I decided to try defender, and the very next crab gave a 1266, 10% tp return. The very next crab after that gave a 588, with defender still up. The one after that gave a 751. So I started to think that the defender one was just a fluke. I also was starting to figure that maybe attack didn't matter for damage.

In about an hour, I had done around 8 Ascetic's that were above 1k damage, usually averaging around 700-800. But there were still a few 500-600s in there too.

After my npc ditched me, I was leaving out of Kuftal and decided to do one last WS on a lizard. All my buffs had worn by then as well, and it hit for 1459, 11% tp. I was both confused and amazed. The very next one after that, hit for 567. But, the one after that hit for 1389, 10% tp. After that I kept doing WSs on lizards for about 10 more minutes, and i never broke 1k again.

So my thoughts on it is, that attack *probably* doesn't effect the damage, I dunno, and that # of buffs on/off probably isn't a factor either. Although, at first I was considering the possibility that haste was a damage modifier, due to the fact that whenever my npc gave me haste I was seemingly doing higher numbers.

Anyway, here is a screenshot of the good ones:

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2334/fury1lp6.png

[Gabz]

Ascetic Fury can crit, you didn't read ws description? Why are you surprised it spike damage sometimes? To me it average lower then asuran/dkick and I hate it, why can't mnk have a good relic ws..

[Starr]

Guess it needs more hachiryu haramaki!

[AoshiZ]

Ascetic Fury can crit, you didn't read ws description? Why are you surprised it spike damage sometimes? To me it average lower then asuran/dkick and I hate it, why can't mnk have a good relic ws..

Do you understand what critical hits are? Why are you not surprised with his findings? (I only ask these questions because your initial questions have just as little reasoning)

Rather, why don't we discuss why the information is important.

Critical hits are a +1 to PDIF. If you go from 600 to 1200 thats double damage. The only time it does double damage (without a double attack) is if your PDIF is in the range of 1 and you boost it to 2. For damage to go from 600-700 to 1200 from a critical hit would mean the ceiling isn't even met yet and theres the potential to still go up to 3.15 PDIF. This would mean that the damage could still go upwards of up to 1900 damage.

This is obviously not the case. Not to mention, the poster said he was using defender at times and still pulling large numbers. Various Weapon skills have Attack bonuses or Attack Penalties (or Defense negation... whatever...). Examples would be Yukikaze Gekko and Kasha (Same stat Mods and FTP mods but people will state that one is better than the other). Its quite possible Ascetic's Fury may have a large bonus since my tests have been finding that it actually performs better than Asuran or Final Heaven on high defense NM's.

This information posted by Muinaru is good stuff.

Edit Addition:
I would just like to Add that the people testing on level 1 bunnies with SA is great and all for testing stat mods and FTP mods. But the results are not consistent with damage being done to higher level mobs.

To Clarify: if a forced crit hit for only the first hit is 400 damage on a level 1 mob and we assume that this is maximum PDIF of 3.15 with FTP of 1 with FSTR maxed. Then it is theoretically impossible for the damage to be greater than 800 on a high level mob without double attack (Even if both hits are critical). However we're finding values of upwards to 1389 with no double attack. I'm fairly certain that these new WS's include various factors that are not along the lines of standard WS's.

Things that could explain these findings would be:
2nd hit is stronger than the first and doesn't follow the conventional FTP mod rules.
Mob Level plays a role.
Some form of Hidden damage coming from some other influencing factor.

[TummieGaruda]

Was messing with Omniscience a bit last night, but what has you figuring Anrin Obi would be the choice sash? Most I managed was 567 on a Goobuue in Rolanberry, so while not the best test mobs, I couldn't really tell a difference between an Voidstorm/Obi and Penitent's for the +INT (if I remember right and the WS is INT based along with MATK). Harder stuff like Campaign mobs saw a drop in damage, usually like 216 for things that might've had Shell or native MDEF, but 316 on presumably INT-deficient job enemies (WAR, SAM, etc.).

If nobody's done level 1 testing, I suppose I could to kill time. Not that many really give a shit about a mage's WS potential.

Since Omniscience deals dark damage, the Anrin obi + voidstorm should boost the effect of the weaponskill. In my testing of Primal Rend, the same exact setup on a different day without Aurorastorm or Korin obi with 300% TP produced 200 less damage on the same mob. I was only getting 920-970 which is far less than the 1100+ I was getting on Lightsday + Aurorastorm.

Try on lower level mobs...all levels of TP give the same mod so there shouldn't be any issues with that. Also, Omniscience has 30% MND as its TP mod. Since it deals element damage, it is effected by Magic Attack bonus and the day corresponding to the element.

To Clarify: if a forced crit hit for only the first hit is 400 damage on a level 1 mob and we assume that this is maximum PDIF of 3.15 with FTP of 1 with FSTR maxed. Then it is theoretically impossible for the damage to be greater than 800 on a high level mob without double attack (Even if both hits are critical). However we're finding values of upwards to 1389 with no double attack. I'm fairly certain that these new WS's include various factors that are not along the lines of standard WS's.

Things that could explain these findings would be:
2nd hit is stronger than the first and doesn't follow the conventional FTP mod rules.
Mob Level plays a role.
Some form of Hidden damage coming from some other influencing factor.

The 2nd hit idea could be fairly easy to test. Find a mob that will survive the weaponskill and get an average for the dmg. Then do the ws to the same mob at low HP so that it KO's in one hit. If there is no critical involved, the ws done at low HP should be half the dmg of the ws when both hits connected. If it is much lower, then the 2nd hit may be stronger.

Also we might need to look into the possibility that the ws can exceede the cRatio of 3.15