The new Samurai: Tachi:Rana and storetp setup - gathering information

[Amele]

I do however agree with you on the fSTR thing, for the sheer fact that nobody will ever be at fSTR cap on Rana, as I've said many times. If they are, they are averaging less than 2 hits per swing probably, or have fulltime madrigal (which is inferior in and of itself).

it is, however, really easy to cap out 12 fstr. (requiring a mere 111 strength on gcolibri), at which point using soboro starts to get lossy.

at base 75 str (hume sam/war merited) you only need 36 strength. you've got 5-8 on body, 2 on earring, 3 on waist, 3 on back, 5 on pants, 5 on head, 7 hands, and 5 food, is 35-39 without even beginning to sacrifice accuracy...



and 1.6 : 1 is about as optimistic as you can get yes (2:1 ignores meditate and wasted swings, and ignores that you don't benefit from DA on soboro but do on hagun, etc.)

[Tename]

just wondering if the higher chance of Double Attack occur on SAM/WAR or with brutal add bit more over all dmg for pachi/rana? since I assume a 3 hit ws has more chance to activate double attack than a 1 hit?

[RedRed]

Best Pachi Build
25 (SAM)
10 (Merits)
2 (Pachipachio)
5 (Rajas Ring)
5 (Askar Body) / 6 (Usukane Haramaki) / 7 (Aurum Cuirass)
1 (Brutal Earring)
7 (Usukane Sune-ate)

55-57 Store TP

sam can wear aurum now?

[Pandum]

how i necro

[Shinryuu]

but there is a -lot- overflow past 100tp.

Overflow gets compensated by 'underflow' (3-hit proc reaching 100 TP, single proc reaching 100 TP), doesn't it?

[FailureMidgard]

Overflow gets compensated by 'underflow' (3-hit proc reaching 100 TP, single proc reaching 100 TP), doesn't it?

No, the way people are calculating it is actually working the exact chance for 1 hit to be wasted, the the chance for 2 hits to be wasted, then subtracting that off the average # of WSes. That # is 1.7.

If you want to see the math behind the 1.7 instead of 1.9:

Spoiler: show

Here are all the way to "waste" TP hits towards WSes, and exactly how much is wasted. Remember there is a WS

for 1 hit at the start, so >5 hits TPing is a waste.

3hit, 3hit - .2*.2 = 4% chance of occuring, 1 hit wasted
3hit, 1hit, 2hit - .2*.3*.5 = 3% chance of occuring, 1 hit wasted
3hit, 1hit, 3hit - .2*.3*.2 = 1.2% chance of occuring, 2hits wasted
2hit, 1hit, 3hit - .5*.3*.2 = 3% chance of occuring, 1 hit wasted
2hit, 2hit, 2hit - .5*.5*.5 = 12.5% chance of occuring, 1hit wasted
2hit, 2hit, 3hit - .5*.5*.2 = 5% chance of occuring, 2hits wasted
1hit, 2hit, 3hit - .3*.5*.2 = 3% chance of occuring, 1 hit wasted
1hit, 2hit, 1hit, 2hit - .3*.5*.3*.5 = 2.25% chance of occuring, 1hit wasted
1hit, 2hit, 1hit, 3hit - .3*.5*.3*.2 = .9% chance of occuring, 2hits wated
1hit, 3hit, 2hit - .3*.2*.5 = 3% chance of occuring, 1 hit wasted
1hit, 3hit, 3hit - .3*.2*.2 = 1.2% chance of occuring, 2hits wasted
1hit, 1hit, 2hit, 2hit - .3*.3*.5*.5 = 2.25% chance of occuring, 1hit wasted
1hit, 1hit, 2hit, 3hit - .3*.3*.5*.2 = .9% chance of occuring, 2hits wasted
1hit, 1hit, 1hit, 3hit - .3*.3*.3*.2 = .5% chance of occuring, 1hit wasted
1hit, 1hit, 1hit, 1hit, 2hit - .3*.3*.3*.3*.5 = .4% chance of occuring, 1hit wasted
1hit, 1hit, 1hit, 1hit, 3hit - .3*.3*.3*.3*.2 = .15% chance of occuring, 2hits wasted

Sum:
Chance to waste hits per TP phase:
4+3+3+12.5+3+2.25+3+2.25+.5+.4 = 33.9% chance to waste 1 hit
1.2+5+.9+1.2+.9+.15 = 9.35% chance to waste 2 hits
Average hits wasted per TP phase = .339*1+.0935*2 = .526

So, let's look at the WS ratios. Soboro swings 1.9 times as often as a Hagun, we'll say. So, when a Hagun

swings 5 times, a Soboro swings 9.5 times. Subtracting off .526 swings per 5, that becomes 9.5-.526*9.5/5 = 8.5
8.5 / 5 = 1.7 times the WSes as Hagun.

In any case though, nobody even plays that perfectly (Soboro is a lot harder to play perfectly than a Hagun due to it's nature, and 1.7 is still way higher than the ratio is in practice). It's a lot closer to 1.5

[Shinryuu]

I mean you have to subtract the chance soboro gets to 100 TP faster than average (e.g. 3+3, 2+3), right?

[FailureMidgard]

I mean you have to subtract the chance soboro gets to 100 TP faster than average (e.g. 3+3, 2+3), right?

The remaining part is all the exactly 5 hit combinations (2-3, 3-2, 1-1-3, 1-3-1, 1-1-1-2, etc) and their probabilities...

[Shinryuu]

Alright, then it is correct. To be fair I was in a hurry and couldn't check the math for details. Am I correct in saying Soboro needs 70% less attack rounds? Or are you purely speaking in terms of hits?

[FailureMidgard]

Alright, then it is correct. To be fair I was in a hurry and couldn't check the math for details. Am I correct in saying Soboro needs 70% less attack rounds? Or are you purely speaking in terms of hits?

Hits...with 0% DA and no meditates, attacking a fortification and WSing as soon as able, a Soboro will WS 1.7x as often as a Hagun.

If you are at 17% DA, that ratio becomes <1.5
If you are at 7% DA, that ratio becomes closer to 1.6.

When you add in human error (which is more prevalent in soboro than hagun) and meditate, the ratio is between 1.3-1.5 somewhere.

[Shinryuu]

Yeah I assumed you factored out meditate and double attack. Zanshin, too, decreases the number, since it cannot proc on Soboro's second or third hit.