Drakesbane

[Wolfknight]

thats how I feel too about the weapon skill the more I use it, I am wondering if claymore, pole, or brave would give better average returns on it though.

[Yugl]

Based on the posts I read I thought it would be consistently high, but after I gained the WS, it didn't seem to do that much DMG frequently. I was thinking it was a gears issue, but now I see that it relies on crits more than STR beefing. I'll try it out with Cletine and Claymore to see if I get better returns as well (Though I think it will kill the DOT from melee hits).

[Ophannus]

i feel like penta is stilll our bread and butter. i dont have drakesbane yet but in the parties ive been with where a DRG had it, I typically did better with penta than he did with drakes. I didnt eyeball his ws gear but i saw heca pieces when he blinked. we were in a drg burn and we were all rdm and his drakes were doing 700-1300 with 900 averages while my pentas were doing 800-1800 with like 1100 averages

[Wolfknight]

i feel like penta is stilll our bread and butter. i dont have drakesbane yet but in the parties ive been with where a DRG had it, I typically did better with penta than he did with drakes. I didnt eyeball his ws gear but i saw heca pieces when he blinked. we were in a drg burn and we were all rdm and his drakes were doing 700-1300 with 900 averages while my pentas were doing 800-1800 with like 1100 averages

he must of had bad gear then or something, my drakes greatly outperformed penta on just about everything including solo.

[Xanthe]

I saw on drg forum, that Aurum Body had beat out ares and Hecatomb, I am not sure if 3% crit 2 str/dex will beat out 15 attack, only other thing I'd say is change assault to fowling or minuet earring I think currently I'm using this set:Item Sets - FFXIAH.com
Though I am still testing out Cuch Mantle since I just got one two days ago, obivously Aurum body and Ares legs planned to be changed if/when I get them, and might change to cletine when I get Aurum body, since I lack V fork.

That was me. /

The original post: DRG DMG SS thread - Killing Ifrit
The set I was using: Item Sets - FFXIAH.com

As for Zahak's mail I'm interested in testing, but there's a point where the attack loss is just going to be too much. Zahak's would probably be better used in combination with Hecatomb Subligar, though you're still out another 4 STR when using that combo instead of the Aurum Curiass/Ares's Flanchard. If I had Zahak's Mail and Hecatomb Subligar I would definitely give it a shot after seeing how switching to Aurum affected my averages. I could set up a spellcast rule to use Minuet Earring instead of Assault Earring when the situation warrants it, but that should be a fairly minimal change if any.

Cletine still isn't worth it. Switching from a Thalassocrat is essentially a loss of 12 STR via wDMG and it will show heavily in your DoT and upper bound of WS damage. Switching to Claymore Grip would need testing. I imagine with Thalassocrat or Gungnir and Zahak's Mail/Hecatomb Subligar a Claymore Grip might perform better in the long run, while with Valkyrie's Fork/Aurum Cuirass/Ares's Flanchard the Pole Grip would come out ahead due to the stacked Double Attack. Again, needs testing to be certain. I think Cuchulain's Mantle, like Cletine, falls under sacrificing too much for too little.

i feel like penta is stilll our bread and butter. i dont have drakesbane yet but in the parties ive been with where a DRG had it, I typically did better with penta than he did with drakes. I didnt eyeball his ws gear but i saw heca pieces when he blinked. we were in a drg burn and we were all rdm and his drakes were doing 700-1300 with 900 averages while my pentas were doing 800-1800 with like 1100 averages

Please don't speak of averages unless you're using a parser. Eyeball "parses" miss entirely too much to be considered. I can speak for certain with parsed experience that Drakesbane has replaced Penta Thrust in every single situation.

[Nameless]

Xanthe, what is your dex before and after Aurum's Cuirass? It seems hard to believe that aurum would outperform Ares when it is 12str and 33 attack vs 8str, 21 attack, and 6 accuracy unless either 8 dex makes a difference in critical hit rate (1%?) or that 6 accuracy gives you more full hits. If 8 dex can make a big difference in critical hit rate, then claymore grip might be the rightful choice for this WS since the biggest knock on the grip is that it doesn't add any value to the WS for most jobs.

[Xanthe]

Xanthe, what is your dex before and after Aurum's Cuirass? It seems hard to believe that aurum would outperform Ares when it is 12str and 33 attack vs 8str, 21 attack, and 6 accuracy unless either 8 dex makes a difference in critical hit rate (1%?) or that 6 accuracy gives you more full hits. If 8 dex can make a big difference in critical hit rate, then claymore grip might be the rightful choice for this WS since the biggest knock on the grip is that it doesn't add any value to the WS for most jobs.

Mithra DRG/SAM, so I have a base DEX of 72. I was previously WSing in 72+35, but now 72+43 for a total of 115 DEX. I explained the same thing in the KI thread. My theoretical max is definitely lower using Aurum Cuirass, but the DEX keeps my crit tier higher for a better average in the long run. I was hesitant at first to use Aurum over Ares's, but the results speak for themselves.

[Nameless]

Would you think the result would have been different if it wasn't just bird, as if you are fighting something higher lvl with a higher AGI? Cuz at 115 dex, 8 makes a pretty big difference (It seems that the higher your Dex-mob's AGI is, the greater effect each added dex will have to critical hit rate). In other words, as alot of ppl have said that bird camp is the only place worth while to have a critical hit build, do you think ares body would out perform aurum's on stuff that is harder or with more AGI?

[Nameless]

Also, just a side question, do we know how much critical hit rate is added to the WS @100% tp? so question for Raging Rush as well. I read it somewhere that it is 10%.

[Aevis]

ls member, powertaru. i refuse to merit as mnk on colis when SE gives us lolfury and drgs this:

http://home.online.no/%7Ekj-eli/images/drake.jpg

[Xanthe]

Those are my thoughts as well. I agree when it comes to more difficult mobs stacking DEX loses its effectiveness and actual Critical+% items are more worthwhile in the right combination with other gear. But not Cletine. Ever.

Also, just a side question, do we know how much critical hit rate is added to the WS @100% tp? so question for Raging Rush as well. I read it somewhere that it is 10%.

The supposed crit rate for critical hit weapon skills is 10% plus 1% for every 5 TP over 100.

ls member, powertaru. i refuse to merit as mnk on colis when SE gives us lolfury and drgs this:

http://home.online.no/%7Ekj-eli/images/drake.jpg

That's the DRG/WAR shot? Also what buffs? Obviously Angon, but any Dia?

[Valyana]

The supposed crit rate for critical hit weapon skills is 10% plus 1% for every 5 TP over 100.

Nagamaki's testing showed different base crit rates for different crit WS. At 100% TP, Rampage had the same crit rate as normal melee, and Backhand Blow had a +40% bonus.

[Yugl]

How do you test that anyways?

[Nameless]

by killing lvl 1 stuff I would think since only 1 hit will ever hit and critical will always do more than non critical due to pdif cap. So yea, it isn't very hard to test at all.

[Yugl]

Cool, if I find some time I might try to test it

[drewbixcube]

Here's the thing... the Drakesbane testing done here so far has been pretty sparse. In the ws mod thread, about 2 posts and that's it... mostly people were focused on atonement, and then insurgency and mystic boon.

What I've personally noticed about drakesbane is, the big damage comes almost entirely from Critical hits.

I've land 5 hits and done 450 dmg... and 3 hits (missing first hit) and done 900... on the same mob. This has been fairly consistent for me too... if no crit procs, dmg tanks regardless of DA. If you miss hits, but proc crits, dmg will soar anyway. Dex down seems to hurt dmg a lot more than str down...

So a dex/crit setup probably more beneficial

this pretty much, although i wouldn't ditch str gear for dex gear, i did like 700 to a random NM in nyzul with full(20%) return then 1400 to the same nm with 4% return (not sure if the return values matter since they're both all 4 hits). i even did 1400ish to a chariot and my ws set is nothing special

Skystrider/pole/blank/smart grenade
Gnadbohds/pcc/brutal/ethereal
askar/heca/rajas/flame
ame+1/warwolf/askar/aurum

[Nameless]

I am just curious since I see that you have skystrider, what does it look like? or if you have SS plz post it lol.

On the other hand, I did 2523 Drakesbane on the imp Swiftwinged Gekko in The Ashu Talif mission. Was at 300% tp, I am not sure if I DAed but I killed it on the spot so maybe it could have done more. Angon, attack song x1, and sub and /sam was the setup. It is just funny to see warrior did 950 raging rush prior to my WS and I just smoked his damage.

[Darkmoon]

Dumb question:

I know the standard is Pole Grip, understand why. Knowing that Drakesbane crits make the world of diffrence, has anyone done an extended parse with Claymore grip to see if the crits over time out weigh the double attacks? Id test it, but Nyzul is a cruel bitch and we have seen 0 Lances so far.

[Yugl]

Does anyone else experience diminished returns at 300% TP? Although, I haven't had the opportunity to use Drakesbane at 300% TP consistently, I find that whenever I use it, the damage isn't as good as the subsequent 100% TP Drakesbane. For example, in Einherjar I had 300% TP, Buffs, and Angon on a mob; yet, only did ~1.5k DMG. On another mob of the same type I did ~1.6k DMG at 100% TP with buffs, but without Angon. After that, I followed up with another Drakesbane (100% TP and buffs) that did 2.1k DMG. I understand that critical hits are all about chance and that it's possible to see all critical hits with 100% TP and not have one critical hit with 300% TP, but seems too frequent.

[Xanthe]

Does anyone else experience diminished returns at 300% TP? Although, I haven't had the opportunity to use Drakesbane at 300% TP consistently, I find that whenever I use it, the damage isn't as good as the subsequent 100% TP Drakesbane. For example, in Einherjar I had 300% TP, Buffs, and Angon on a mob; yet, only did ~1.5k DMG. On another mob of the same type I did ~1.6k DMG at 100% TP with buffs, but without Angon. After that, I followed up with another Drakesbane (100% TP and buffs) that did 2.1k DMG. I understand that critical hits are all about chance and that it's possible to see all critical hits with 100% TP and not have one critical hit with 300% TP, but seems too frequent.

Placebo effect. If you did a large set of WS at 300% and a large set at 100% you would see a higher average due to critical hit chance.