Has anyone tried PW since the update?

[dys0r]

Did SA get the same forms as these guys?

Have they even divulged information on PW? Or are they still keeping it under wraps, making other LSs figure it all out on their own?

Another PW tidbit: Whoever said PW has shared hate needs to be shot. It doesn't. RNGs had hate on lamps at all times.

Go kill PW, guys!!

[mackerel]

There's a theory going around that the forms PW skips correspond to what ZNM seals are on the person (or alliance, etc) who pops it. By the previously observed pop orders, you got all 5 serpent generals and 3 beseiged monsters skipped at least.
Did the person who popped it for you have any seals at the time?

[Redness]

There's a theory going around that the forms PW skips correspond to what ZNM seals are on the person (or alliance, etc) who pops it. By the previously observed pop orders, you got all 5 serpent generals and 3 beseiged monsters skipped at least.
Did the person who popped it for you have any seals at the time?

So, in effect you would need to farm everything... 2/3/4/5 times for tier 4/3/2/1 seals + pandy pop? That's a shitty theory, hope it's wrong lol

[Waef]

So basically, 10-11 forms in 2 hours. Gogo a little over 10 minutes per form? What was SE thinking, both before the nerf, and after with the time limit?

[Suiram]

Another PW tidbit: Whoever said PW has shared hate needs to be shot. It doesn't. RNGs had hate on lamps at all times.

If hate isn't shared, couldn't someone get hate on the lamps without getting hate on PW, run into the hallway where the lamps won't go so they continually path back and forth between that person and PW, removing the need to even worry about killing them at all and allowing everyone else just to focus on killing PW? Although TP seems to be linked possibly, it was hard to tell (I helped out a bit with TaruMortis's fight but didn't really get a chance to notice much except that and the lamp pathing thing).

[MaachaQ]

If hate isn't shared, couldn't someone get hate on the lamps without getting hate on PW, run into the hallway where the lamps won't go so they continually path back and forth between that person and PW, removing the need to even worry about killing them at all and allowing everyone else just to focus on killing PW? Although TP seems to be linked possibly, it was hard to tell (I helped out a bit with TaruMortis's fight but didn't really get a chance to notice much except that and the lamp pathing thing).

IIRC, on previous attempts it was shown that if you didn't kill all lamps before killing that form of PW, he repopped in the same form, no change to next.

[Suiram]

My post was more a question/comment about a method for holding the gears and not about the potential outcome of doing so. That said, I only know of one attempt where people held gears and that was the first time PW was popped, before people knew that he changed forms multiple times, and it's not inconceivable that under those circumstances he respawned as a similar-looking Chariot boss and that this fact was lost in the confusion. I know I personally have a difficult time distinguishing between Bhaflau and Zhayolm models, and there were never any screenshots posted of PW after the first form change in that attempt.

[Toksyuryel]

My post was more a question/comment about a method for holding the gears and not about the potential outcome of doing so. That said, I only know of one attempt where people held gears and that was the first time PW was popped, before people knew that he changed forms multiple times, and it's not inconceivable that under those circumstances he respawned as a similar-looking Chariot boss and that this fact was lost in the confusion. I know I personally have a difficult time distinguishing between Bhaflau and Zhayolm models, and there were never any screenshots posted of PW after the first form change in that attempt.

This was specifically brought up and he repopped as the exact same boss.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Someone told me Sapere Aude have skipped 8 forms without knowing how and the draw in is a real pain.

If this is true, then it looks like they got rid of the "Besieged" forms (Mamool hussar/hammer Troll/acrolith) and the Serpent Generals.

[Spira]

if thats true then it probably seems like the serpent generals and besieged mobs were removed entirely (which seems fine, they were totally out of place)

4 Chariots > 3 Beastmen Kings > Hydra > Khim based on the most recent pop..

Vampyr may or may not have been removed, because he isn't really in the same grouping as the 3 HNM fiends... but he appeared before the ToA fiend HNMS with BtLs pop. Doesn't seem to be the case for the recent LS. If he's not grouped together with them, he might have been omitted. If he is, they maybe he hasn't appeared yet.

In any case, it seems like with a strong proper setup PW may actually be killable within 2Hrs without having to figure out his gimmick. Then again theres a possibility that they didn't adjust the final PW form itself and only the imitation forms. 1 bad wipe from him alone could put all the effort and time taken to get to him to waste due to the 2hr limitation. the multiple astral flow thing is also no joke.

Looking forward to more info

edit: baseless speculation here:

Spoiler: show

has anyone considered the possibility that PWs lamps thing may be a guess-the-correct-number game? I mean, this might explain why he constantly pops with 8 lamps instead of maybe 3 super strong lamps or something. We do know that he can repop as the same form if you don't kill all the lamps but its not like this has been tested again with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 lamps still up. Also, whilst it is counter-intuitive, having the same form repop may not necessarily mean a bad move. No progress doesn't necessarily mean a step back.

Heres an example of what i mean... the number puzzle theory.
Lets imagine that each imitation boss is a different number puzzle:
If you kill it with the right number of lamps up, you get to skip to the next tier.
If you kill it with the wrong number of lamps up, you have to repeat the puzzle (repeat the form) but you get another attempt at guessing the right number of lamps.
If you kill it with no lamps up, it means you forfeit the puzzle and move on to the next one in the same tier, unless there are no more puzzles (NM types) from that tier, so you advance to the next tier by default. ((( alternatively, 0 might also be a viable 'lucky number' but in the case that its wrong, you still move on to the next puzzle )))

Since its a puzzle game, the NM from that tier that you get first is randomized, which might explain why they seem to appear in a tier order but not in a specific order.

Lets say for simplicity sake that each different NM form has 1 correct number (like a lucky number) that never changes. If this is the case, then all people will need to do is figure out the number of lamps that is required to solve that puzzle for every form (or at least enough to kill within 2hrs) and everyone can follow suit in future. However, this means that the LS out there that do this have to bite the bullet with their own pop sets.

If we assume the NMs come in groups, then the tiers would be Chariots > Beastmen Kings > HNM Fiends > PandeWarden himself, based on current info on what mobs appear or not.
Seeing as how Generals and Besieged mobs seem to have been taken out, perhaps part of what SE did was shorten the 'game' by removing 2 tiers.
That thus makes a total of minimum 4 forms if hes totally figured out, which is very reasonable. At the same time it would also imply that PW was meant to be a mob that has to be figured out by the community over numerous attempts before a successful gimmick-solved PW will appear. Exactly where the magic number might come from tho, is really anybody's guess, if this theory even works at all.
I don't think its safe to debunk the theory without testing because I'm fairly certain only the very first attempt on PW didn't kill all lamps before killing PW himself. No one else tried this after the fact.

So.. i'm actually urging LS to kill PW with lamps up. And take note of the number of lamps too.

[Quetz_Jamal]

Great information, thanks for sharing.

It's pretty clear we'll need to recruit a bit of help to solidify with our current roster for our attempts. Good luck to you guys on your next run...we're doing 3 more Tygers this week to solidify our second set. Will keep updated when we plan to go for the kill.

[Neosutra]

Great information, thanks for sharing.

It's pretty clear we'll need to recruit a bit of help to solidify with our current roster for our attempts. Good luck to you guys on your next run...we're doing 3 more Tygers this week to solidify our second set. Will keep updated when we plan to go for the kill.

Just to get a clear understanding.

You had: 2 blm parties and 2 rng parties, that would pull the lamps away when they repopped and kill them while the tank party + dd party focused on that form of PW?

Did you not have a problem with gears AoEing the same time as PW (i.e. 8 gears with AOE rail cannon at start would suck I would expect). Or did you kill gears, then PW form each time?

What made you decide to kill the gears rather than hold, or was it just easier that way?

How much HP did each form, and each gear have?

Thanx again.

[layoneil]

If this is true, then it looks like they got rid of the "Besieged" forms (Mamool hussar/hammer Troll/acrolith) and the Serpent Generals.

that would be so dumb, those are the cool forms, don't we fight enough Chariots, Hydras, Khimairas, Cerbs in Salvage, Nyzul, ENMs, ZNMs as it is?

[Weeks]

Why do people think there is some trick to PW? Does it really seem all that hard to believe that Square designed it to be a 20 hour fight and when they caught shit for the length of the fight they turned it into a frantic 2 hour zergfest? I think it's Einherjar taken to the next level, and stretched out to 2 hours.

[oldoldman]

Spoiler: show

has anyone considered the possibility that PWs lamps thing may be a guess-the-correct-number game? I mean, this might explain why he constantly pops with 8 lamps instead of maybe 3 super strong lamps or something. We do know that he can repop as the same form if you don't kill all the lamps but its not like this has been tested again with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 lamps still up. Also, whilst it is counter-intuitive, having the same form repop may not necessarily mean a bad move. No progress doesn't necessarily mean a step back.

Heres an example of what i mean... the number puzzle theory.
Lets imagine that each imitation boss is a different number puzzle:
If you kill it with the right number of lamps up, you get to skip to the next tier.
If you kill it with the wrong number of lamps up, you have to repeat the puzzle (repeat the form) but you get another attempt at guessing the right number of lamps.
If you kill it with no lamps up, it means you forfeit the puzzle and move on to the next one in the same tier, unless there are no more puzzles (NM types) from that tier, so you advance to the next tier by default. ((( alternatively, 0 might also be a viable 'lucky number' but in the case that its wrong, you still move on to the next puzzle )))

Since its a puzzle game, the NM from that tier that you get first is randomized, which might explain why they seem to appear in a tier order but not in a specific order.

Lets say for simplicity sake that each different NM form has 1 correct number (like a lucky number) that never changes. If this is the case, then all people will need to do is figure out the number of lamps that is required to solve that puzzle for every form (or at least enough to kill within 2hrs) and everyone can follow suit in future. However, this means that the LS out there that do this have to bite the bullet with their own pop sets.

If we assume the NMs come in groups, then the tiers would be Chariots > Beastmen Kings > HNM Fiends > PandeWarden himself, based on current info on what mobs appear or not.
Seeing as how Generals and Besieged mobs seem to have been taken out, perhaps part of what SE did was shorten the 'game' by removing 2 tiers.
That thus makes a total of minimum 4 forms if hes totally figured out, which is very reasonable. At the same time it would also imply that PW was meant to be a mob that has to be figured out by the community over numerous attempts before a successful gimmick-solved PW will appear. Exactly where the magic number might come from tho, is really anybody's guess, if this theory even works at all.
I don't think its safe to debunk the theory without testing because I'm fairly certain only the very first attempt on PW didn't kill all lamps before killing PW himself. No one else tried this after the fact.

So.. i'm actually urging LS to kill PW with lamps up. And take note of the number of lamps too.

If that were true you'd still have to power through up to 8 times to find the 'lucky number" so it would still be quicker just to kill the 4 forms.

[Suiram]

This was specifically brought up and he repopped as the exact same boss.

I remember it being brought up, I don't remember it ever being answered. Before I made the post above yours I returned to that thread and looked for one in case I'd overlooked it before, and I still didn't see an answer. It is a pretty long thread, however, so if you could do me the favor of posting a link to where this was answered, or to another thread where it was asked and answered, I'd appreciate it.

[Freysi]

If that were true you'd still have to power through up to 8 times to find the 'lucky number" so it would still be quicker just to kill the 4 forms.

Unless the lucky number is static for each form.

[Sagacious Sundi]

4 Chariots > 3 Beastmen Kings > Hydra > Khim based on the most recent pop..

Well, in the other attempts it was somewhat random. You could get the chariots in any order, the generals in any order, etc. So it's possible that the vampyr form would've appeared eventually.

[dys0r]

2 RNG PT's would Slugshot the hell out of lamps they pulled. 2 BLMs would single nuke tier4 on lamps as well. Lamps had about 5k HP in the beginning, then I believe they get more and more HP with each passing form. The PTs would then disband and be invited by the main PW alliance, depending on what damage type we needed to kill PW into his next form.

Not gonna lie, but RNGs and BLMs will die here and there due to AoEs from lamps and other nasty crap thrown at them.

[Quetz_Jamal]

Just to get a clear understanding.

You had: 2 blm parties and 2 rng parties, that would pull the lamps away when they repopped and kill them while the tank party + dd party focused on that form of PW?

Did you not have a problem with gears AoEing the same time as PW (i.e. 8 gears with AOE rail cannon at start would suck I would expect). Or did you kill gears, then PW form each time?

What made you decide to kill the gears rather than hold, or was it just easier that way?

How much HP did each form, and each gear have?

Thanx again.

Just for clarification, I wasn't with the group that shared information. I was merely thanking and expressing for my group what we would need to do. I will be passing on further information if we get any.