The Gimp/Confused/WTF Player Thread VI: Enmity = TH9000

[Deader2818]

I think since SCH has come around, there really is no use for WHM, other than Haste, but honestly, the RDM can easily keep the tanks hasted.

If WHM isnt even needed anymore to cure, which is what their main purpose is/was, what use do they really have, besides being a haste whore?

[Callisto]

Nobody's taking my Devotion away for shit.

[Deader2818]

Hearing someone say that WHMs are useless makes me really sad.

Dont get me wrong, I was WHM only for a long time. Then ToAU came out, and no one really wanted WHM anymore for exp/meriting. Which for whatever reason, bleed into other events as well. Then SCH comes out, and they became better at being able to remove status effects and what not. All the while, WHM has gotten nothing to really boost their usefulness. Besides maybe /SCH but then they still cant do aoe nas

[Aksannyi]

Most SCH I know are terrible at healing. Their belief is that, "I have tier IV nukes, so why should I be a cure bot?" You have to beat them over the head with a stick to get them to heal people. Sure there are probably decent ones but most of them are just half-assed BLM wannabes. Not saying all are, but a lot of the ones I've encountered are. And a lot of SCH will only begrudgingly main heal.

I really don't think you can say that WHMs aren't useful. Capped Shellra V merits are really damn good, Devotion is the greatest, and there's only one job in the game that can remove Petrification. I honestly think WHMs in general are better at curing because they care more. Seems dumb, but it's true. Most SCH are a lot like BLMs: they care about their damage but don't really care if everyone else is dying. They're not all like that, but a lot of them are.

[Thorny]

half-assed BLM wannabes

SCH > BLM on the vast majority of things, BLM is only better on wyrms or other extremely resistant mobs.

[Shin Volcano]

I have all 3 (WHM, SCH, RDM) and i DO think SCH has a wide variaty of uses BUT, WHM will ALWAYS have a use, i am sorry but NOTHING can compete with Shellra V maxed, as well as barspells (with AF2 pants) on really big fights, if i am fighting tiamat and asked to main cure, WHM will be the choice, anyone who has fought her will fully understand why the whm is an obvious option, it's fights like that where WHMS use will never die, i even saw SE is planing to give whm more tools, tho i am not sure what yet, if you are in a HNM, very active endgame LS i can asure you WHM will NEVER be useless, i love sch ALOT, but whm has and will always be used, and there shear curing power, because if you think SCH is going to solve all problems spaming cure IV i hope you have a large EXP buffer, WHM not only has higher power but they have a way less chance at grabbing hate due to there wide range of - enimity gear and fixed hate Cure V and oh yea, raise 3, reraise 3. SCH has a choice, to either be a blm or a whm, they can do both, but it takes alot more effort, you can't be lazy with SCH it's the same deal as RDM, you play it half-assed you may as well not play it.

[Aksannyi]

SCH > BLM on the vast majority of things, BLM is only better on wyrms or other extremely resistant mobs.

See my SCH is pretty low so I wouldn't know this, but based off the ones I've seen, they suck. This could very well just be a Hades thing, though, because a lot of players on Hades are horrific.

[Shin Volcano]

See my SCH is pretty low so I wouldn't know this, but based off the ones I've seen, they suck. This could very well just be a Hades thing, though, because a lot of players on Hades are horrific.

Well, he is right to some aspect, SCH has Magic accuracy issues, due to there Low elemental skill gear choices, since blm has A+ and access to alot of skill gear, they are they mage of choice for highly resistant mobs... BUT SCH CAN do it, IF they know how to use, i tested nuking as sch on tiamat and Ouryu, i did get mad resists due to not being to balance ele skill and INT from lack of SCHs gear choices, ONLY under Klimaform can they land any reliable nukes, i found the best thing to do is put sch in with the a BLM group to support them with weather and Aoe Klimaform, it dosn't last long and has a horrible recast time, but the short time it is up i suggest that is when you nuke, but if it's not wyrms or anything highly resistant, then they can do just fine, SCH is a job that is easy to suck at, so Bad SCHs are common sadly.


SCHs MAIN use is there Helix spells and all-around support Stonskin, phalanx Na aoe etc, Nuking is acttualy icing on the cake and can fill the gap somewhat if a blm is not present, but don't rely on it, Vast majority is not exactly the best word because you'll pull hiar out if all you do is nuke with it, incase you havnt noticed they also have somewhat of a shitty MP pool.

[Avarice]

SCH > BLM on the vast majority of things,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ssapointed.gif

[Thorny]

In before stunning logic on how BLM can beat scholar on anything that isn't resistant.

[Lujei]

I really don't think you can say that WHMs aren't useful. Capped Shellra V merits are really damn good, Devotion is the greatest, and there's only one job in the game that can remove Petrification. I honestly think WHMs in general are better at curing because they care more. Seems dumb, but it's true. Most SCH are a lot like BLMs: they care about their damage but don't really care if everyone else is dying. They're not all like that, but a lot of them are.

I'm way late on this, but SCH has Stona too.
That said, I like main healing on WHM better than SCH because of gear choices and Cure V, and I have both at 75.

[Thorny]

incase you havnt noticed they also have somewhat of a shitty MP pool.

Parsimony and Sublimation do wonders to help with this, in dynamis manifestation aspir does as well. Scholar does not have AM2, but AM2 is terrible MP efficiency unless you're magic bursting and ebullience serves a similar purpose if spike damage is needed. A good scholar can stay ahead of a good BLM in dynamis, limbus, ein for just nuking damage.. the crowd control and ability to switch to light arts on a moment's notice makes them even more valuable.

[BadKarma]

heh

[Kaelia]

Dont get me wrong, I was WHM only for a long time. Then ToAU came out, and no one really wanted WHM anymore for exp/meriting. Which for whatever reason, bleed into other events as well. Then SCH comes out, and they became better at being able to remove status effects and what not. All the while, WHM has gotten nothing to really boost their usefulness. Besides maybe /SCH but then they still cant do aoe nas

Oh, you were referring to exp/meriting? In that case SCH beats WHM by quite a bit, even without haste. Hate generally never becomes an issue, so the AoE Stoneskin/etc. is amazing and a WHM's Cure V is generally unnecessary. For events though, I would never prefer a SCH to a WHM/SCH, just because of the powerful Shellra V, beefed up Barspells, fully merited Devotion, Cure V for hate reasons (popping off a 900+ Cure V and generating hate as if it were a Cure III is why I think it's a bit off to think that a SCH can replace a WHM healing tanks on certain things). My LS has Scholars, but they never get put in tank parties over a WHM. They generally never come SCH to anything actually, but SCH is disgustingly awesome in merits.

[Thorny]

Oh, you were referring to exp/meriting? In that case SCH beats WHM by quite a bit, even without haste. Hate generally never becomes an issue, so the AoE Stoneskin/etc. is amazing and a WHM's Cure V is generally unnecessary. For events though, I would never prefer a SCH to a WHM/SCH, just because of the powerful Shellra V, beefed up Barspells, fully merited Devotion, Cure V for hate reasons (popping off a 900+ Cure V and generating hate as if it were a Cure III is why I think it's a bit off to think that a SCH can replace a WHM healing tanks on certain things). My LS has Scholars, but they never get put in tank parties over a WHM. They generally never come SCH to anything actually, but SCH is disgustingly awesome in merits.

Haste adds more to killspeed than anything else, either job should be able to keep a merit party healed more or less endlessly, I'd go with a WHM if no RDM was available.

[Shin Volcano]

Parsimony and Sublimation do wonders to help with this, in dynamis manifestation aspir does as well. Scholar does not have AM2, but AM2 is terrible MP efficiency unless you're magic bursting and ebullience serves a similar purpose if spike damage is needed. A good scholar can stay ahead of a good BLM in dynamis, limbus, ein for just nuking damage.. the crowd control and ability to switch to light arts on a moment's notice makes them even more valuable.

I'm well aware of this, but was point based speaking, they share a similar mp pool to RDM, but has abilites to help them control it, but you are only limited by charges, if you don't know how to use them that MP will go fast, But dynamis shells here do not belive in SCHs i was even told "SCH is useless in dynamis, whatever they can do RDM can do better" by somone i know, pretty much ensuring that this person is still in "old school" days,
or really has never seena good SCH, because for the fact of AOE gravity, and even in tank or meele PT i have found more then enough uses, it's almost partly about getting the community to understand the job as well.

[Kaelia]

Haste adds more to killspeed than anything else, either job should be able to keep a merit party healed more or less endlessly, I'd go with a WHM if no RDM was available.

We typically go double BRD (or 1 BRD 1 COR) plus a healer (either RDM or SCH), and a lot of the time, even without Haste we end up over-killing the camps (typically birds, or Nyzul->Bhaflau mamools) and have to wait for repops. I don't know all the math, but isn't there a point where you'd want to actually slow down the kills a bit to maintain a chain rather than overdo the kill speed and have to wait for repops? A question really more than an argument; I'm curious.

[Thorny]

That point typically involves switching over to corsair's roll, to gain some benefit through slowing down. If your party is good enough to kill everything before repops at a 15% haste loss, chain wivre.

[Klefth]

... and there's only one job in the game that can remove Petrification.

Ohai SMN.

Oh, SCH can do that as well O.o

[Bagel]

AND DON'T YOU DARE FORGET PUP