'Splitting Heirs' Op Available on Odin

[FailureMidgard]

A waste of what? Successful BC run?

The NM does have the capabilities to mow down a PLD if you make the slightest of errors at a bad time. 2 PLDs is for safety. A security net to fall back on.

Our group is quite successful with 1 paladin, so you really don't need to be sarcastic about it. We don't fail it, and we kill that much faster. (faster = less chance for some "slightest of errors at a bad time" to happen).

And uhhh, yea, the NM can hit kinda hard, but your "slightest of errors" I think actually has to be something pretty big, like maybe a person DCing...

[Yugl]

Our group is quite successful with 1 paladin, so you really don't need to be sarcastic about it. We don't fail it, and we kill that much faster. (faster = less chance for some "slightest of errors at a bad time" to happen).

And uhhh, yea, the NM can hit kinda hard, but your "slightest of errors" I think actually has to be something pretty big, like maybe a person DCing...

You're speaking for your specific group alone. Can you honestly tell me that any pick up group PLD won't have a problem tanking this NM?

[Valisk]

Our group is quite successful with 1 paladin, so you really don't need to be sarcastic about it. We don't fail it, and we kill that much faster. (faster = less chance for some "slightest of errors at a bad time" to happen).

And uhhh, yea, the NM can hit kinda hard, but your "slightest of errors" I think actually has to be something pretty big, like maybe a person DCing...

I can be sarcastic about it because Avelle was claiming 2 pld/nins was a waste. I'm not implying that 1 pld/nin wont work but I will advocate that 2 plds work and the reason a group would bring 2 in Therin's/whoever's defense.

[Wolfknight]

I can be sarcastic about it because Avelle was claiming 2 pld/nins was a waste. I'm not implying that 1 pld/nin wont work but I will advocate that 2 plds work and the reason a group would bring 2 in Therin's/whoever's defense.

eh, I can see why would want pld but really if your DD good with /nin, I've held before on drg/nin while pld was weakened.

[Zumi]

Looks like my server has this week and a I got a couple people wanted to try it, switch to sandoria. So whats better 1 or 2 PLDs?

[FailureMidgard]

You're speaking for your specific group alone. Can you honestly tell me that any pick up group PLD won't have a problem tanking this NM?

By that logic, you may need 2 bards or 2 white mages, can you honestly tell me the pick up whm and bard will do their job correctly?

[Teorem]

Our group is quite successful with 1 paladin, so you really don't need to be sarcastic about it. We don't fail it, and we kill that much faster. (faster = less chance for some "slightest of errors at a bad time" to happen).

And uhhh, yea, the NM can hit kinda hard, but your "slightest of errors" I think actually has to be something pretty big, like maybe a person DCing...

This is exaggerating. It doesn't take much for you to die as a PLD, even with a competent group setup. One resisted Sleep or Silence can easily open the way for a quick death--and a subsequent wipe--if you are unlucky with the series of specials used.

Yes, you CAN walk in with one PLD and win.
Yes, you CAN walk in with two PLDs and win.

No amount of player skill is going to force Darkheir to choose to not use Shoulder Charge after he's wiped both of your sets of Shadows, but as long as you can manage to hold the adds well it's a hell of a lot easier to keep up or even recover with the second setup than the first. You do get Sentinel, but not always the chance to even use it before it's too late.

Edit: My own experience with the BC was as and with PLD/NINs, not with the PLD/WAR turtling described in the other thread. I certainly wouldn't be trusting any pick-up PLD or support to be executing that method effectively.

[Yugl]

By that logic, you may need 2 bards or 2 white mages, can you honestly tell me the pick up whm and bard will do their job correctly?

It takes more experience for a pick up PLD to tank this NM than it does for a pick up WHM to heal for his.

[avelle]

I can be sarcastic about it because Avelle was claiming 2 pld/nins was a waste. I'm not implying that 1 pld/nin wont work but I will advocate that 2 plds work and the reason a group would bring 2 in Therin's/whoever's defense.

Sorry, having 2 plds sounded like a waste based on what I've seen. Soooo I thought I would do what any reasonable person would do and ask why 2 plds was suggested. I guess you can be a douche about it if you want though! Obviously several combinations work for different groups, so was just curious.

[FailureMidgard]

This is exaggerating. It doesn't take much for you to die as a PLD, even with a competent group setup. One resisted Sleep or Silence can easily open the way for a quick death--and a subsequent wipe--if you are unlucky with the series of specials used.

Yes, you CAN walk in with one PLD and win.
Yes, you CAN walk in with two PLDs and win.

No amount of player skill is going to force Darkheir to choose to not use Shoulder Charge after he's wiped both of your sets of Shadows, but as long as you can manage to hold the adds well it's a hell of a lot easier to keep up or even recover with the second setup than the first. You do get Sentinel, but not always the chance to even use it before it's too late.

Edit: My own experience with the BC was as and with PLD/NINs, not with the PLD/WAR turtling described in the other thread. I certainly wouldn't be trusting any pick-up PLD or support to be executing that method effectively.

We don't even use silence. Much less have it resisted. As for sleeps, perhaps it's asking a lot of a random red mage to have a decent sleep set, but those adds aren't especially resistant. Red mage is nowhere near my main job (but it's what I've been going on to this fight), but I do have decent gear for it, and outside of the paladin job resisting, I haven't seen a single full resist on a sleep yet. On top of that, even when the paladin -does- resist, I basically always have time to get off a Bind or 2nd sleep. And those things have so few HP, I don't see how your DD couldn't kill the thing almost instantly. Yea, the paladin may lose 1-2 shadows more, but that's far from the end of the world.

As for shoulder tackle...ya, our paladin gets hit sometimes...so? It can't kill him, and it still doesn't happen that often. And he doesn't just constantly not have shadows either, he has them up a vast majority of the time.

From my experience (and the experience of friends in pick-up groups), I really wouldn't bother with this fight much at all with pick-ups. Then again, I cringe at doing Nyzul with pick-ups too, so ya. If you are doing it with like half pick-up and half decent people, I'd suggest a zerg as the safest way. Then again, the 1 time I zerged it, it was with good players.

It takes more experience for a pick up PLD to tank this NM than it does for a pick up WHM to heal for his.

Not sure I agree. I specifically said the jobs I said because I really think a good white mage is huge for our setup working as flawlessly as it does.
Oh, and elegy is pretty huge. The NQ Earth staff/fulltime yigitbody/etc/etc bard may have issues.

[laverna]

With one PLD how long does each win take? as well how well geared is the PLD?

[Neosutra]

On another note, PlayOnline kicking your one pld off at 40% boss HP is awesome.

Seriously fucking hate this game sometimes.

PlayOnline never kicks me off when Im checking the AH, or just walking to my mog. Why the fuck does it do it when im the main/only tank in a tight BC that we just spend an hour farming a Key item for.

[Yugl]

Taken from another thread:

Yep. The main problem came with the adds being locked onto hate with me, so even while the DD was meleeing them down, I would have at least one mob attacking me, along with the NM, which made shadows worthless and left me open to shoulder charge.

We moved to a bit more turtle centric strat after trying the above method, and like it alot more:

Me Pld/war, with defensive set and phalanx2, Rdm, Brd, and 3 DDs.

Im able to hold NM + 1-2 on me at any given time. 3 DDs clear the pets out asap when they come the first time then start working on NM. 2 DDs break off and clear adds as they come back each time, while 1 DD keeps DoT on the NM. Kills NM in about 7-8 minutes.

I assume his group is well geared though, so add a few min to the kill time.

[Therin]

As an addendum to before, we changed to:

PLD/NIN
PLD/NIN
RDM/WHM
SCH/RDM
BRD/WHM
SAM/WAR

And it's even better. Our RDM has about 345 enfeebling skill in this zone, so there's no trouble sleeping the adds, and we've got SCH mainhealing instead of RDM.

[Zumi]

Couldn't find enough people today maybe later this week.

How would this work

PLD/NIN
meele
meele
BRD
WHM
RDM

I am almost always PLD every time I do one of these BCs. Is it better to sub war if taking 1 pld? Usually that's the set up I used on the other BC fights. We always seem to get people with those jobs too.

[FailureMidgard]

With one PLD how long does each win take? as well how well geared is the PLD?

I think our battlefield timer is at about ~10minutes when we win, so a ~9minute fight roughly.

Taken from another thread:

I assume his group is well geared though, so add a few min to the kill time.

Are you saying Neo's or mine? My group is definitely well geared, but ya, we have 1 less DD than them.

Couldn't find enough people today maybe later this week.

How would this work

PLD/NIN
meele
meele
BRD
WHM
RDM

I am almost always PLD every time I do one of these BCs. Is it better to sub war if taking 1 pld? Usually that's the set up I used on the other BC fights. We always seem to get people with those jobs too. Couldn't find enough people today maybe later this week.

How would this work

PLD/NIN
meele
meele
BRD
WHM
RDM

I am almost always PLD every time I do one of these BCs. Is it better to sub war if taking 1 pld? Usually that's the set up I used on the other BC fights. We always seem to get people with those jobs too.

Seeing as that's the exact setup we run, it definitely works. We use pld/nin, drk/sam, drg/sam, brd/whm, whm/sch, rdm/blm. As for /war on the pld...I can't imagine it, but obviously Neo is getting it to work.

Key points about the fight:
-Rdm will be able to easily land sleep outside of JA resist on paladins if his gear/merits are fine. They will build resistance/immunity though, so try to kill them once at 40-50% of the bosses HP (and, I suggest keeping full elemental dots+poison/bio on the boss).
-The boss's haste overwrites slow2. It sucks. A bard that has decent gear and can land elegy helps a ton.
-Make sure the whm and brd are quick at erasing after a Tornado thing (forget the exact name atm).

I really don't think the fight is very hard at all, but I'm playing with well geared/good players, so /shrug.

[Therin]

I would not try PLD/WAR unless you have a nasty shield set (315+) including at least some -% damage taken (7-10% would be nice, but more is better).

Neosutra has Aegis and both Valhalla pieces, so he's taking ~20% less damage off the bat over any other PLD/WAR, not even considering his other gear.

I only have Hauteclaire for a PDT set and I'm definitely not comfortable bringing /WAR. Besides, as long as the adds are getting slept /NIN isn't bad at all.

[Neosutra]

I found /war to be alot easier and safer than /nin tbh. My shadows were down alot when /nin due to the hate share (mob currently targeted would always come straight for me) combined with the NM beating on me.

Shoulder charge was doing like 100-300 damage max, and other hits were 0-100, depending on block or non block.

Had defender, tacos, protect 4, phalanx2, standard shield/defense set, and 1 minne. Just be fast to erase def down and hp down.

Melees started getting a little hate though towards end of fight, but that was due to me taking damage and our full usu mnk meleeing in about 20+ emnity >.>.

[Yugl]

I was talking about Neo's group since I assume everyone with Relic carries a full geared group.

[Neosutra]

My group is about half and half. The pld, rdm, mnk are about as well geared as you can get, the other 2 DDs are reasonably well geared, but not "zomg".

Just make sure your rdm is top notch (decent mp, merited, phalanx2, good gear) and is fast with erases.