'Splitting Heirs' Op Available on Odin

[EternalSnow]

The straps went from llike 100k yesterday here on odin to like 1mil now

[ringthree]

So far there's 3 legitimate ways to use real life money to buy in-game services: Merchandise (Moogle Rod, Moogle Cap, Harpsichord, Tidal Talisman), World Transfers, Main character & additional mules (including all the ones people use for gardening & Mog Bonanaza) are in the same category. None of these are against the ToS as far as I know and that's really all there is to it.

The letter of the law is the last refuge of the modern scoundrel. Just because you are breaking no rules does not mean that you are not doing anything wrong.

The lack of conscience exhibited by the players of this game has gone so far as to be a sad joke.

[Seraph]

The letter of the law is the last refuge of the modern scoundrel. Just because you are breaking no rules does not mean that you are not doing anything wrong.

The lack of conscience exhibited by the players of this game has gone so far as to be a sad joke.

Don't bring 'morality' into the FFXI world, expecially describing something so morally neurtal as server transfering an item that is completely 100% theirs. If people want to pay a server transfer fee to get more gil for their item, so be it. Assuming the gil earned from the sale is actually used by the players, and not just sold off to some IGE knockoff, I couldn't care less how they do it.

The real lack of morality and justice here, is noone even bothered to try to invite me to get a cut of all that fat loot! Last time I ever bother to make an amazing discovery post...

Also, I personally would have made the buyer move a mule on Odin, and transfer it themselves though. Same yummy gil, but weeks faster, and like $50 cheaper.

[ringthree]

I would be considered a forum stalker if only I wasn't on the same server as you and if only that you didn't continue to demonstrate your lack of reading skills.

Well, you seem to like to follow me around this forum, looking for small mistakes to pounce on. That's a bit stalkerish to me. LOL

I will admit, I was very much naive about the statements which, if you used your reading skills, never noted how those items made it to that server (Wafik's statement was more of a question of a potential scenario, not a statement of fact). As the weekly tally was near that time and I had been out of town, I, naively, assumed that the Ops had been opened on other servers.

My view of people may lead me into misinterpretations such as these, but I find that I would much rather see the world in that way and deal with those mistakes than view the world with such a jaded and cynical eye.

My reading skills are quite fine, the only thing you are questioning is my moral worldview and I find that to be easily defensible.

[ringthree]

Don't bring 'morality' into the FFXI world, expecially describing something so morally neurtal as server transfering an item that is completely 100% theirs. If people want to pay a server transfer fee to get more gil for their item, so be it. Assuming the gil earned from the sale is actually used by the players, and not just sold off to some IGE knockoff, I couldn't care less how they do it.

The real lack of morality and justice here, is noone even bothered to try to invite me to get a cut of all that fat loot! Last time I ever bother to make an amazing discovery post...

Also, I personally would have made the buyer move a mule on Odin, and transfer it themselves though. Same yummy gil, but weeks faster, and like $50 cheaper.

There is morality in ever thing we do. The people that do not want to bring morality into the FFXI world are those that do not wish to be burdened with moral norms. You could care less, but your lack of morality is inconsequential to what we do and do not accept. If we chose not to bring morality to FFXI, then why not just ninja lot everything? Why not steal friends accounts? Why not rip people off? Yes, these things happen every day in this game, and I lament the fact that it happens. Do you? (Hint: I know you do care, because I know you aren't a dick.

The fact is that morality is in almost everything we do in this game, we have to work with other people to achieve almost everything in this game. Nothing in this game is morally neutral, the only people that suggest such things are those that need to ignore them to pursue acts that they know are not moral.

I would just suggest that if this game is supposed to be without morality, then why pay real money to transfer an item to sell it on another server, and then pay more to transfer the money back? Why not just spend the money with RMT, and save yourself the trouble? There's the rub. Do the two acts have the same moral culpability? Obviously not. Suggesting that there is no morality in the game only creates the situation where they are equally acceptable. Though I reject them both, I can see that one is worse than the other. Without morality, you wouldn't be able to make that call. Sadly, this notion is widespread. People openly and proudly botting, gil buying, hacking, steal, ninja lotting, etc. Those people make the game suck and if it's just a game and we just play it to have fun, then those people are making not fun.

As for the BC, I did try to send you a tell on Thursday night but I didn't see you on. I should have told Ninjafox about it, though, and I am sorry I didn't mention it to him, because they did the mission several times over the weekend.

[Seraph]

There is morality in ever thing we do. The people that do not want to bring morality into the FFXI world are those that do not wish to be burdened with moral norms. You could care less, but your lack of morality is inconsequential to what we do and do not accept. If we chose not to bring morality to FFXI, then why not just ninja lot everything? Why not steal friends accounts? Why not rip people off? Yes, these things happen every day in this game, and I lament the fact that it happens. Do you? (Hint: I know you do care, because I know you aren't a dick.

The fact is that morality is in almost everything we do in this game, we have to work with other people to achieve almost everything in this game. Nothing in this game is morally neutral, the only people that suggest such things are those that need to ignore them to pursue acts that they know are not moral.

Don't misunderstand me, there are actions some people take in this game that go so far beyond being 'dick moves', and fall into stuff so stupid and hurtful to others, I would say the moral label applies.

I can't agree with you on the 'everything in FFXI falls into a moral category' stance though. Browsing the AH, crafting in your moghouse, going AFK to take a piss... None of these things have any real moral weight. They are just 'day to day actions'. The lack of morally objectable content does not imply 'goodness' and vice versa.

I think the only concept I can borrow from your thinking and agree with, is that people can force situations that are normally neutral into being something more. However, in this situation we are discussing though, SE makes a few more bucks, these guys get the most for their item, and the person who wanted to pay the most for the item gets it. I don's see anything 'evil/good' or 'right/wrong' here. It's a straight up buisness deal. I don't see anyone getting hurt here, and that is usually the first flag in a 'bad deal'. I know the whole 'Money is the root of all evil' crap comes into play, but this all seems legit to me. You might be pissed that an Odin born item is leaving the server, but that's a different matter entirely.

I do try to be a nice guy ingame. I try to help people out when possible, and I don't go out of my way to cause anyone grief. Are there people on Odin I hate? Absolutely. Are there people on Odin who dislike me? I'm sure you can find a bunch (I'm not involved or popular enough to really be hated on such a large scale). I'm sure you can find a few people who absolutely hate me though (Ingame or on game forums). I have absolutely no reservations in telling someone ingame I think they are being stupid, or being an asshole. Few people have driven me to that extreme, but it happens. Does it make me a bad person? Maybe. Does it make me honest? Yes.

[ringthree]

Don't misunderstand me, there are actions some people take in this game that go so far beyond being 'dick moves', and fall into stuff so stupid and hurtful to others, I would say the moral label applies.

I can't agree with you on the 'everything in FFXI falls into a moral category' stance though. Browsing the AH, crafting in your moghouse, going AFK to take a piss... None of these things have any real moral weight. They are just 'day to day actions'. The lack of morally objectable content does not imply 'goodness' and vice versa.

I think the only concept I can borrow from your thinking and agree with, is that people can force situations that are normally neutral into being something more. However, in this situation we are discussing though, SE makes a few more bucks, these guys get the most for their item, and the person who wanted to pay the most for the item gets it. I don's see anything 'evil/good' or 'right/wrong' here. It's a straight up buisness deal. I don't see anyone getting hurt here, and that is usually the first flag in a 'bad deal'. I know the whole 'Money is the root of all evil' crap comes into play, but this all seems legit to me. You might be pissed that an Odin born item is leaving the server, but that's a different matter entirely.

I think we pretty much agree, it's just to the extent that we believe things are just or unjust. In either case though, you do agree that there is morality attached to the actions, and we are just determining whether those actions are moral or not. We disagree on the morality of the actions, but that wasn't my point and I am not trying to create a debate about that fact. I was just trying to illustrate that we should be using morality to judge our actions and the actions of others. The reason that people cheat, steal, are assholes, and fuck each other over is that the other players that don't do such things will not make moral judgments about those people, or worse, they praise them.

As for all actions being moral, this is pretty much a fundamental truth, but it shouldn't be confused with the idea that all actions have moral consequence. Checking the AH, going AFK, etc, they all have moral effect, but the level of importance of those effects determines the morality of the situation. For example, if you are checking the AH, are you then ignoring someone's shout for assistance in Whitegate? Is it your responsibility to respond to that shout? Are you self-serving by ignoring it just to look at the AH? What about going AFK? Did you miss claiming an NM because you weren't around? Do you have to wet yourself just to help claim an NM? All of the actions have moral effect, the question is the relative importance of those actions, not so much that there are any actions that don't involve morality. The real problem is that some people justify their lack of morality in all situations just because some actions may not have moral consequence.

I do try to be a nice guy ingame. I try to help people out when possible, and I don't go out of my way to cause anyone grief. Are there people on Odin I hate? Absolutely. Are there people on Odin who dislike me? I'm sure you can find a bunch (I'm not involved or popular enough to really be hated on such a large scale). I'm sure you can find a few people who absolutely hate me though (Ingame or on game forums). I have absolutely no reservations in telling someone ingame I think they are being stupid, or being an asshole. Few people have driven me to that extreme, but it happens. Does it make me a bad person? Maybe. Does it make me honest? Yes.

See, the thing is that decent people like you and I, we passively accept those that break even the most fundamental moral norms and we shouldn't. We have let the norm become corrupted and useless, and that is sad. Are we to blame for the immoral acts of others? Absolutely not. But we are guilty of accepting them. And we shouldn't.

Maybe I am a hypocrite because I am a much nicer and accepting person in the game, while I am much more judgmental and less accepting of the bandwagon mentality that happens on this forum. I hope it is because I tend to hang around with good and intelligent people in the game, while most of the people here... well... LOL. I have no major conflicts with people in the game. I am not saying there aren't people I don't like or people that don't like me, but it just doesn't effect how I play the game. The problem I think with this forum is that I post here because I like the discussion, the argumentation, sadly, most of the people here can not separate their personality from the discussion and a reasonable disagreement becomes a flame war because they can't figure out that a disagreement about the game is not a personal attack. Of course this is the nature of the internet, but most of the members of BG aren't doing anything to break the trend.

Anyway... loving the derail. It's actually far more interesting than a BC we can't get into for at least another week.

[Seraph]

I think we pretty much agree...

[Stuff]

Anyway... loving the derail. It's actually far more interesting than a BC we can't get into for at least another week.

I'll buy most of that. You take my concepts a step further than I generally care to, but I get the idea. I just try to realize the point of the game is to have fun with the people I play with. If I start drifting away from that, something is wrong. Feeling bad for not helping with every insane shout in whitegate is not only more than a fulltime job, it will drive a logical person insane. I help the people who help me, and it generally works out ok. That doesn't mean I don't go off on a random event to help someone I don't know, it just isn't the norm for me. I only have so much time to play, I try to make it count.

Also, since the ability to milk this Op is now no longer an option, for at least a week, it would be nice if people posted battle info about the BC. I know there are multiple mobs, I know how to get inside, but some more details would be awesome. You know who you are. =P

[Starr]

Is transferring a Wise Strap to sell it for 5M worth £60?

[Airenn]

sever transfer for potential $$$$

How much Sash going for? Smart deal. 25 for 10M ish?

And what, t's like 40-50 for one mil from GS?

Not saying it's good, but still smart.

[mackerel]

Is transferring a Wise Strap to sell it for 5M worth £60?

It's worth it if you also transfer with a 50M cuchulain's mantle.

[Kittyn]

It's worth it if you also transfer with a 50M cuchulain's mantle.

50m or trying to gain control of 7 regions... hmm... tough call.

Personally I think SE should make this BCNM available permanently once it's been unlocked on the server.

[Starr]

50m or trying to gain control of 7 regions... hmm... tough call.

Personally I think SE should make this BCNM available permanently once it's been unlocked on the server.

No.

[ringthree]

I'll buy most of that. You take my concepts a step further than I generally care to, but I get the idea. I just try to realize the point of the game is to have fun with the people I play with. If I start drifting away from that, something is wrong. Feeling bad for not helping with every insane shout in whitegate is not only more than a fulltime job, it will drive a logical person insane. I help the people who help me, and it generally works out ok. That doesn't mean I don't go off on a random event to help someone I don't know, it just isn't the norm for me. I only have so much time to play, I try to make it count.

Also, since the ability to milk this Op is now no longer an option, for at least a week, it would be nice if people posted battle info about the BC. I know there are multiple mobs, I know how to get inside, but some more details would be awesome. You know who you are. =P

Send a tell or Celestria, Blaize or Ninjafox, they did it over the weekend, and they aren't the kind of people to hide the information.

[ringthree]

How much Sash going for? Smart deal. 25 for 10M ish?

And what, t's like 40-50 for one mil from GS?

Not saying it's good, but still smart.

Smart? I don't think that spending real money to get gil in any form, morally acceptable or not, could ever be considered smart.

[Kaeko]

Also, since the ability to milk this Op is now no longer an option, for at least a week, it would be nice if people posted battle info about the BC. I know there are multiple mobs, I know how to get inside, but some more details would be awesome. You know who you are. =P

I never went in the BC because my rank completely sucks.

It turns out you CAN switch to Sandy from another nation and go in immediately because your medals transfer as well (i.e. you don't get sent back to worst medal when you switch) - my medal just happened to suck to begin with so I still couldn't go. I don't know the minimum rank.

As others have said, everyone in the PT gets the key item like the AC BC requirements.

Actual fight info (this is all secondary info and/or hearsay because I didn't actually go in)...

There are 4 mobs, 1 main NM (DRK?) and 3 helpers (2 PLD 1 BLM). If you kill the helpers, they respawn almost immediately. None are sleepable I think (don't quote me on that).

The trick to the BC is PULL ALL 4 BACK TO ENTRANCE. Kill the 3 helpers first, then work on the NM. When the 3 helpers respawn (in the middle of the BC), if you keep the NM at the entrance, they will not relink because the NM is out of sight. Then finish off the NM at the entrance. Do NOT fight the NM at the center or you'll just have to deal with those helpers over and over.

I hear the NM also has some nasty AoE or something. Sorry for the vague info I never actually went in.

[Ashira]

slaves are sleepable, but doesn't always land.. like, my lullabys didn't land at all until after our Sleep II died, amusingly. >.>

We failed at it, but we were told to 'kite' the leader, but not really told to like, not kite it EVERYWHERE (hard getting all the nuances across fully sometimes between JP and NA players).. hate is partially shared, so the slaves will go after the leader, and also, if you kite through the pop area, the repopped slaves will join back up again. So yeah. That's why I can't offer much ><

[Airenn]

Smart? I don't think that spending real money to get gil in any form, morally acceptable or not, could ever be considered smart.

Yes, it is if you're comparing it to the rates of buying gil.

And that's what I meant.

Now whether I agree or condone it is a different story all together.

[AzazaelFenrir]

The only thing I don't like about this is that all 6 people need to be from the same country. Other than that I can't wait till Fenrir gets one open.

[Wulfgang]

To other people asking about the key item triggers etc, for future reference, it's really very straightforward. The key item drop is just like getting the items to access the Astral Candescence BCs - it shows as "Obtained Key Item: Tigris Stone" (in La Vaule, not sure about others, obviously) in your log, and all members in your party who are present in the zone when the mob is killed will all get it at the same time.

My reading comprehension must fail, but what mob(s) actually "drops" the key item to get into the BC? I believe Kaeko wrote earlier that it can be just any mob near the entrance to La Vaule? It sounds like getting the cards to enter Limbus, I guess my question is which mob in La Vaule is the equivalent of the flower in sea?