Alexandrites price? Too much?

[frodnonnag]

You're upset, and I guess you feel you have that right. But most of what you are saying is either flat out wrong or biased.

1) I am sure you have confused people offering to PAY $3k for bynes with people selling them. Its a common mistake. There are 2 or 3 current threads on the prices on servers and I have checked and no....people are selling bynes for 4600-6500 on servers. Shells may be as low as 6800 and bronze mostly are in the 8+k range. There is simply no relic even remotely close to $50 million, much less $30 million.

2) No. Prices have not fallen on servers. Again, there is simply nothing to support that and unless you have some facts to show that, its more like your emotions are making you feel that way. I've looked and I wish they had fallen, but I don't see it. Who knows tho...maybe in a few months they will if people who were collecting dynamis currency decide to swap to mythics.

3) You use the word retarded like most people. Its meaningless. This is your point: a person should get his LS to do all the runs for him. All you have to do is front the dynamis hourglass. Ok. People have explained that the LS might do it a few times. You are naive if you think any shell will do 30 runs to get 1 person all their currency. Why would a LS let someone pay $500k for a glass and takeway $millions of currency? If you want to think people are stupid for buyng currency when they have no other option, then I guess you have to live in that world.

4) Someone has already shown that it does not take any where near a year to complete all the quest requirements exclduing the alexandrites. Re read that.

I think you are under the wholly misguided assumption that SE wants everyone to have a mythic weapon in a couple months. Even in a year. They have said in no uncertain terms that these will be just as difficult to get as RoZ relics. And if you are following the news, there are probably only about 2,500 RoZ relics in existance after 4+ years.

While I agree that 5k alexandrite is too high, it will not stay that high. As it accumulates and as people run out of gil buying them while others decide that selling them is better than holding onto something they may never use, the market will dictate the price. Right now, demand exceeds supply. That is obviously because the supply essentially just started. Its silly to think the price can stay this high when the excess quantity accumulates into thousands on each server. Excess means more that people want to hold, which of course now might not be many people.

i go by what people pay, in shout or in bazaar. i sold a montiont silverpiece a few weeks before the update for 850k, most anyone would say that was overpriced.

Why would a LS let someone pay $500k for a glass and takeway $millions of currency? If you want to think people are stupid for buyng currency when they have no other option, then I guess you have to live in that world.

my ls lets people sponsor dynamis for currency, we easily walk away with 250+ coins per run without 100s, and all 100pieces and synth materials are lotted by people not going after relic in that zone. i personally think my shell has a great system that helps its members who want relic(and can show they have the gil and commitment to do it) not have to pay inflated prices for currency, while keeping incentive for that member who already did dynamis over 9000 times and is 6/6 on 3+ of their jobs.

one relic from dynamis is 17,900 currency.

17,900 divided by 250 as a base average of coins per run is 71.6 runs, rounded to 72 runs,

72*500000 is 36 mil. when you get your completed relic, you get back 3000 coins.

3000/250 is 12 runs worth of coins, or 6mil, selling that currency will probably net you more.

note: i didn't count the cost of doing beaucidine or xarcabard for the shard/attestation because both zones can easily cover the 250 currency average as well.



one mystic weapon's worth of alexandrite. 30k alexs.

an average run of salvage boss will net you close to 100. not every run is going to be bosses because people need NMs and ramparts, etc. so knock that average down to 50 alexs a run. that portion alone, if done daily taking all your tags for rvb to cover cost to enter, will take 600 days, or under 2 years, this isn't counting the other quests needed, such as the 6 runs 1 to 100 you'll need from nyzul isle, or the 100 assaults you'll need, or the 25+ weeks worth of einherjar.

ope, i forgot that bosses aren't 100% on dropping the large purse, so average is probably much lower.

[Jackyl]

I give up.

[orson]

Whether he's wrong about the price is irrelevant. The fact is the alexandrite portion of the mythic weapon takes more time and gil than a relic weapon to get and that's the real issue here.

[Tubbers]

Burtgang is just too good compared to the rest of the mythic weapons, at 5k/Alexandrite, it only costs a high profile endgame LS 150mil to purchase 30k Alexandrite. And it's really quite affordable considering the benefit it will bring to the whole LS.

Also lowering Alexandrite requirement will only increase its demand and help pushing the price up. The only way to bring it down is to increase the supply.

I'm just going to go ahead and say you have no idea what you're talking about at all. Look at the benefit, look at the price.

[Ahlah]

I suggest you get in a true endgame shell before you make comment like that.

[orson]

I suggest you get in a true endgame shell before you make comment like that.

That's a rather presumptive statement. Given we don't know how awesome burtang is and really 150 mil is a lot of HQ gear overall depending on how well geared your LS is it might be a lot better to outfit a lot of people rather than 1. Again though all depends, for some LSs there goal is to pump out relics, maybe we'll see shells dedicated to getting mythics.

[jPuff]

The only people I see defending the Alexandrite quest in this thread are people with 2-4 relics, bleeding money, and who probably ARE buying them for 5k. Yeah, not convinced.

[Vodou]

Whether he's wrong about the price is irrelevant. The fact is the alexandrite portion of the mythic weapon takes more time and gil than a relic weapon to get and that's the real issue here.

Not sure if this was meant to be sarcasm or not. How pray tell can price be irrelevant in a discussion about cost? Relics are costing between $100M to $150M in todays economy using the lowest prices that you can expect to find for the amount of currency you need to buy. (I am not saying you can't from day to day see a person selling 5 byne bills for $4k each, but that you won't be able to buy many at that price.) Using bynes at 5 and shells at 8 and bronze at 9, which are generally speaking across all servers the price you will pay if you are buying currency, a relic will be upwards of $150M if the last stage is bronze and lower if its not.

There is generally speaking a lack of economic understanding in some of the comments in this thread.

If mythics are worth more than relics than the price of alexandrites will be one number and if they are worth less than it will be another one. This is obvious and not very useful except that we already know the price of relics.

Its not really probable that mythcs will cost $150M in alexandrites UNLESS they are more valuable than relics. If they are more valuable than relics, then yes some people will spend that much. Thats what the world is like. The people who are willing to spend that much will and the rest will wait. At some point, those who are buying will be unwilling to buy and if no one wants to spend that much the price will fall to the price people are willing to pay until available supply is exhausted. That price will depend on not just supply but demand.

The key thing is that alexandrites are a by-product of something people already do so the drops are going to be sold unless people want them. Thats the supply part. The other key thing is that the mythics have a value and that is what people will buy at.

We don't know the value of alexandrites now because we don't know the value of the mythic weapons nor the supply. If people believe that some mythics are worth more than relics, then the first portion of the supply will go there and yes the price will be at least $4k IMO. If the supply is more than that group of buyers is willing to pay, then the overall price will fall untill buyers are able to purchase all product that is up for sale.

Its conceivable that if supply is large enough and the mythics are not perceived as equal to relics, that the price could fall to as low as $1k. Its conceivable but dobutful that SE would enable that much supply to be created however since they've already said what they want in terms of total relics and since we already see that some of the mythics are quite good.

[orson]

It is irrelevant when the point is the cost of relic can vary massively depending on your LS, server, and at what price you buy currency. At this point ya we can't honestly know exactly how much dynamis currency and alexandrites are going to settle at sure you can predict it but unless you're God I don't believe in anything other then an educated guess. At this point you're arguing over who's better at predicting economics which isn't really the point of this thread.

[Darwinion]

SE said ages ago that they were surprised (and disappointed I'm sure) at the number of people that have obtained the old relics. They wanted those to be much more rare than they have been. And so they have made damn well sure that these new mythic weapons will be much more difficult to obtain. The requirements are insane.... but so they should be if SE wants them to be as rare as they would like.

[Wolfknight]

SE said ages ago that they were surprised (and disappointed I'm sure) at the number of people that have obtained the old relics. They wanted those to be much more rare than they have been. And so they have made damn well sure that these new mythic weapons will be much more difficult to obtain. The requirements are insane.... but so they should be if SE wants them to be as rare as they would like.

no, SE said they wanted mystic weapons to be EASIER to obtain than dynamis relic, while still being a challenge and not as good at dealing damage at Relic Weapons, however due to the alexanderite part of the weapon alone they've failed at their goal.

[Ahlah]

That's a rather presumptive statement. Given we don't know how awesome burtang is and really 150 mil is a lot of HQ gear overall depending on how well geared your LS is it might be a lot better to outfit a lot of people rather than 1. Again though all depends, for some LSs there goal is to pump out relics, maybe we'll see shells dedicated to getting mythics.

The concept is simple. SE do not create mythic weapons to improve the gameplay, they make them to keep players busy in FFXI. Most of the game contents have already been explored and ppl need a good reason to keep playing this game.

2 years down the line, there will be plenty Aegis PLDs who manage to fill every slot with the best available gear and LS that have slain every single HNM in this game. These ppl are willing to put in all resource to upgrade mythic weapon because it's probably the only challenge left in this game. Burtang will be the obvious choice and I don't think many ppl need help to understand how good it is. It just means any LS that still needs the 150mil to pay for member's gear is not ready for mythic weapon upgrade.

[Vodou]

no, SE said they wanted mystic weapons to be EASIER to obtain than dynamis relic, while still being a challenge and not as good at dealing damage at Relic Weapons, however due to the alexanderite part of the weapon alone they've failed at their goal.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59499

1UP: Some of those campaigns are really tough, especially when you get the orcs in there spamming AOE attacks. It's easy to wipe in instances like this. What can you tell us about the forthcoming Bahlran's weapons? How difficult will they be to obtain compared to the existing relic weapons?

MI: While it's really hard to compare the two, it'll probably be about the same level of difficulty.



http://www.playonline.com/pcd/topics...20/detail.html

Much like their Dynamis counterparts, the relic weapons, these weapons were designed with the intention of being markedly difficult to obtain, as befits their value as prestige items.


Clearly you must have another source other than SE to justify your statement. But SE seems to think you are wrong.

[orson]

I don't think it was that mythic weapons were going to be easier to obtain but I think that SE gave the impression that they were designing it as a more friendly system to casual players. Maybe people were just mistaken in this impression or maybe SE was trying to say they'd have something for the casual players (AKA getting the new WSs.) Either way this isn't comparable to relics anyways mythics are far more work than relics.

[Kairos]

I think alexandrites are starting to go down on caitsith. I've seen some people selling them in bazaars for 2,500. I'm hoping they go down a bit more. After getting the weapon I would just have 2-3 more titles to obtain before i could start the next part of the quest and i'm 1/4th of the way to my eyepatch.

[tymora]

2k each should be a decent price.
30000*2000 = 60M

[Almalexia]

Tying Nyzul and Salvage to the same item seems to me a bigger culprit than alexandrite pricing. Players cannot make progress in both events at the same time in a way that would allow them to complete both quest elements in about the same time frame. Rather than purchasing alexandrites as a supplement to their progress, it becomes the primary means of acquiring gems at least until they collect the necessary tokens. NMs in Nyzul ought to yield purses and machinery alexandrite in order to give some balance to the Nyzul-Salvage issue.

Not to say that alexandrite shouldn't be cheap! Lyramion mentioned that there's a psychological value to currency that keeps each type in a certain price range-- bynes generally cheapest and shells generally most expensive, at least on my server. I don't believe the same is true for alexandrite at the moment. There are much fewer people buying gems than currency, so a server-wide "accepted price" doesn't exist except in the minds of individual sellers. I've offered 10k pre-patch to 7k the first few days after the patch, 5k two weeks ago to 4k last week and most sellers (especially those who sold to me in the past) are willing to make the deal at each opportunity. Oddly enough, I collected three times as many gems last week at 4k than two weeks ago at 5k, many of them sold by players who refused to even accept 7k. Is this a sign of people selling now before the price slips lower because they expect it to go lower? And if the price does drop below 4k, undermining even byne bills, would people suddenly get turned off just because a gem is worth less than a byne despite the trend?

[benny]

stuff

I really agree with your points and suggestion on alexandrite, but the pricing of dynamis currency is almost entirely simple market forces at work. Several factors keep supply of bynes high, such as the allure of wootz ores from Bastok, and the fact that 20 scrubs can full clear the zone for a high currency haul. Also the demand is relatively low because of the several most popular relics, only the dagger takes significant amounts of bynes.

[Spekkio]

remember also, that the market can react to the differing prices in currency by focusing on a particular zone. shells are expensive, an LS out to produce that product may choose windy multiple times in a row to produce the product worth more and may shy away from bastok b/c of the relative lower cost of bynes. if there's a major rush on currency, an LS may elect to do cities and sell the coins for profit over doing outlands which offer less liquid profit.

this is much like a farmer may opt to plant corn or wheat in a field depending on which is projected to sell for more next year. meanwhile, alexandrites are simply produced. there is no intelligent decision on the part of the market in production quantity. they just get produced as a byproduct. period.

a final point is that currency can be bought in very large chunks. bazaars regularly contain 100 pieces which represent almost .7% of the relic in just 1 purchase. meanwhile, an average alexandrite bazaar will likely have maybe 20-30 alexandrites in it, with a purchase of 30 representing only .01% of a complete mythic. the sheer number of bazaars required to FIND that much currency, much less the price involved makes for a problematic task alone.

[Kittyn]

I really agree with your points and suggestion on alexandrite, but the pricing of dynamis currency is almost entirely simple market forces at work. Several factors keep supply of bynes high, such as the allure of wootz ores from Bastok, and the fact that 20 scrubs can full clear the zone for a high currency haul. Also the demand is relatively low because of the several most popular relics, only the dagger takes significant amounts of bynes.

Kikoku's last stage is also bynes.

Alexandrite price settling around 5K. Some people buying up to 5500. I guess the 5K mark may not be too good of an indication since someone from another server is dominating the market. *ahem* I know you're reading this! lol

a final point is that currency can be bought in very large chunks. bazaars regularly contain 100 pieces which represent almost .7% of the relic in just 1 purchase. meanwhile, an average alexandrite bazaar will likely have maybe 20-30 alexandrites in it, with a purchase of 30 representing only .01% of a complete mythic. the sheer number of bazaars required to FIND that much currency, much less the price involved makes for a problematic task alone.

This is an excellent point. The time it takes to gather & store such an enormous amount of rocks would add 1-5m gil.