Mythic vs. Relic, a "Should I upgrade" Thread.

[Wolfknight]

I know from watching the video of it being tested on the site summit that's what it seems to do, but the amount of information they give about the effect is really limited. I also don't trust those who were at the site summit to know that much about testing the weapons or the effects of the weapons. Sadly we can only know what they reported to us about these weapons. For me, making them auto-crit is not enough for me to consider upgrading this weapon as my choice. It would have to be something like forces DA or TripleAttack on jumps and boosts tp gained from jump. The video the summit people posted is too low res for me to glean any of that information from it.

force crit isn't enough for you whats wrong with you?, depending on mob that means jumps will always do 100[really high defense stuff JoL, or etc]~500[exp mobs] damage atleast, thats pretty dam impressive since it goes with DA on weapon and u get to spam drakesbane which beats penta and skewer.

[Kairos]

force crit isn't enough for you whats wrong with you?

I'm on crack.


Lol. For me when i look at a weapon that takes this much commitment and time/gil investment, I look at how it effects everything about the job. I think that kind of boost to jump is great as well as the aftermath effect, but for me the joykill is the fact that it doesn't do anything other than that for all the effort, and the fact that its just a damage weapon. It has no bearing on boosting what i can do if i was drg/mage, nor does it do anything to help out the wyvern (which hits JoL pretty hard due to the way pets can ignore level correction) and its abilities. Not saying its a bad weapon because its far from that, its great. I guess I just feel that since the smn, bst and pup weapons do equally as much for the pets as they do for the player, that drg's mythic weapon should have something on it that gives the wyvern a special boost to its native ability.

Something like "Enhances Deep Breathing" that would give the wyvern permanent deep breathing, which could be further boosted by using the job ability deep breathing would have sealed the deal for me.

[Ruiner]

Something like "Enhances Deep Breathing" that would give the wyvern permanent deep breathing, which could be further boosted by using the job ability deep breathing would have sealed the deal for me.

And it would have pissed 90% of all other DRGs the fuck off. Different strokes, can't please everyone, etc. I think forced crit is damn nice, but what the fuck do I know.

[Kairos]

Yeah it is nice, and you said it "Different strokes, can't please everyone, etc."

I'm just one of those people who are happier with one weapon than i am with another due to play style, opinion, etc. I'm sure anyone who decides to upgrade the drg weapon will love it. Ninjas however will be able to blow themselves up more often when they jump off a bridge every time pld gets a boost. /sad

[BRP]

That's really fucking stupid.

Why?

[Therin]

Therin, you can't be 100% sure until they're actually out.

No, but I can be 99% sure.

I mean, stats vs. stats the difference is obvious, and it should be obvious to any DRK that Liberator will tear Apocalypse on when parsed damage against damage (obviously Catastrophe is still very nice when tanking due to drain, but damage against damage all you need to know are the stats - it has nothing to do with waiting for the weapon to come out).

[Wolfknight]

I'm on crack.


Lol. For me when i look at a weapon that takes this much commitment and time/gil investment, I look at how it effects everything about the job. I think that kind of boost to jump is great as well as the aftermath effect, but for me the joykill is the fact that it doesn't do anything other than that for all the effort, and the fact that its just a damage weapon. It has no bearing on boosting what i can do if i was drg/mage, nor does it do anything to help out the wyvern (which hits JoL pretty hard due to the way pets can ignore level correction) and its abilities. Not saying its a bad weapon because its far from that, its great. I guess I just feel that since the smn, bst and pup weapons do equally as much for the pets as they do for the player, that drg's mythic weapon should have something on it that gives the wyvern a special boost to its native ability.

Something like "Enhances Deep Breathing" that would give the wyvern permanent deep breathing, which could be further boosted by using the job ability deep breathing would have sealed the deal for me.

first permanent deep breathing would be fucking amazing, but secondly it would break the game, because drg/mage power would become godly, HB III for 650+ hp for 7 or less everytime, seriously I wonder what dragoon could soon with that kinda power lol, also for it not helping wyvern on Ryunohige it reads: Aftermath (Incl. Wyvern): Increases Acc./Atk. Occasionally attacks twice so using drakesbane with it grants our wyvern Nice Att and Acc bonus and possible 50% DA on wyvern, I am not sure what else SE could have done on weapon that wouldn't have overpowered it.

[Neosutra]

No, but I can be 99% sure.

I mean, stats vs. stats the difference is obvious, and it should be obvious to any DRK that Liberator will tear Apocalypse on when parsed damage against damage (obviously Catastrophe is still very nice when tanking due to drain, but damage against damage all you need to know are the stats - it has nothing to do with waiting for the weapon to come out).

Pull out the calculator.

Assume same buffs on both, assume 20 acc/attack from aftermath, assume 50% DA from aftermath, assume double march, haste, double minuet.

Lets use colibri for example. Lets work out exactly what the DoT would be after X amount of time. Relating Insurgency to about 85% of a guillitines damage and catastrophe to about 75%.

Which comes ahead?

[Fwahm]

Insurgency is more like 90%, and Catastrophie is more like 60% of Guillotine.

I'll assume 1 Min 1 March, and haste on both with Coeurl Sub on level 81 Colibri. I'll assume their accuracy is capped due to the +20 accuracy on both weapons, and they have 18% haste. I'll assume Guillotine does 1100 damage on average. This is disregarding all other buffs.

Liberator averages 200 per hit, attacking 182 times in ten minutes with Insurgency every 6 hits, which adds 30x1100x.9 = 29700 damage.

Liberator: 66100 in 10 minutes

Apocalypse averages 210 damage per hit, and attacks 143 times in 10 minutes, with Catastrophie every 6 hits, which adds up to 23x1100x.6 = 15180 damage.

Apocalypse: 45210 in 10 minutes

[Fwahm]

Hmm, forgot the double damage proc. Do you know how often it triggers?

[Therin]

Roughly 10% of the time, so 14 procs in 143 swings, adding an additional 210 per swing for a total of 2,940 damage. Liberator still destroys Apoc.

[Neosutra]

Roughly 10% of the time, so 14 procs in 143 swings, adding an additional 210 per swing for a total of 2,940 damage. Liberator still destroys Apoc.

Add in another march there and see how the haste adds up the attacks. Who the hell xps w/o 2 brds?

It far from destroys it.

[Fwahm]

I do. BRD + COR is far better than BRD x2 In my honest opinion.

With 2 marchesc (these numbers are +- 10 as i wasn't as careful with rounding)

Liberator: 79,620

Apocalypse: 58,983

[Wolfknight]

Add in another march there and see how the haste adds up the attacks. Who the hell xps w/o 2 brds?

It far from destroys it.

I thought apoc's haste counted to gear haste cap since the haste cap thing, so only means need less haste in tp gear, or is it separate haste still?

[Nevex]

What if Augment Elemental Seal means no recast? How awesome would that weapon be then ?

I wouldnt put it past them since whm get full time divine veil.

Unlikely, since Divine Veil is a trait which is techinically separated from Divine Seal as job ability.

What one could expect is that the Elemental Seal boost makes it not wear off after a single cast and stays up for a minute(normal ES duration if you don't cast anything) allowing multiple ES casts, which would be actually nice.

Or it could be utter trash.

As Kaeko said someone needs to "sacrifice" time and money to upgrade BLM weapon before we're able to say anything about that.

[Khelek]

Assuming no additional DA gear or TA gear, and with favorable circumstances for apoca (SV marches):

Apocalypse:
513 delay

25% gear haste
43,75% magic haste
10% hasso
total: 78,75%

delay after haste: 109,0125
DA rate: 0%
Amounts of hits in 1min: 33
5%~10% of those hits will do 2x dmg, depending on mob. so 1-3 hits~

Liberator:
528 delay

20% gear haste
43,75% magic haste
10% hasso
total: 73,75%

delay after haste: 138,6
DA rate: 50%
Amount of hits in 1min: 51

[Starr]

I dunno, I think it's unlikely to be 50% DA.... and Joyeuse is like 45% isn't it?

[VZX]

Joyeuse's is 50%

[Starr]

Never really tested it and I never would but I've seen 50% and 45% argued.

[Wizerd]

Is Apocalypses increased damage effect really 5-10% proc rate? I figured all relics would be roughly the same in that area, and Mandau is definitely less than 5%. Kikoku appears far less than 5% as well. These are 1H weapons though, I haven't asked our Amano holder.