Mythic vs. Relic, a "Should I upgrade" Thread.

[Khelek]

Is Apocalypses increased damage effect really 5-10% proc rate? I figured all relics would be roughly the same in that area, and Mandau is definitely less than 5%. Kikoku appears far less than 5% as well. These are 1H weapons though, I haven't asked our Amano holder.

This number was given to me by an apoca wielder. I have not tested this myself, so I have no idea if it is correct. It is, however, the only available figures to go by. If it's less than 5%, then Liberator just wins even more.

[Amele]

Never really tested it and I never would but I've seen 50% and 45% argued.

eyeballing it looks like 45%. it's likely that vzx has parsed it (or reviewed a parse) if *he* says it's 50% then I'll take that at face value based on the quality of his previous claims on related subjects. especially since we've long ago proven that our collective eyeballs aren't any good at this stuff.

[EternalSnow]

I wanted to get other people's feedback on the weapons for each job, and talk about which weapons are worth upgrading over traditional Dynamis relics, due to superior/non traditional stats/abilities.

In this discusion, you can debate which will end up being cheaper (as the prices have not stabilized, we will assume they cost the same, causing mythic to actually be harder due to the other requirements).

Want to get everyone's opinions now that the WSs are out, and people are seeing just what they would be using every 100tp or so to maintain the aftermath effects.

For this comparison, I am going to assume aftermath works like current dynamis relic and lasts 20secs for 100tp, 40 for 200tp, and 60 for 300tp. Also assuming the aftermath acc/att will be ~20+

Weapons I would say get dismissed as useless to upgrade immediately:

Mnk h2h: Really crappy WS, loss in DoT from WSs alone may be made up from "occasionally attacks twice" and perhaps a boost to focus length/potency. DoT would probably be less spamming this than the simple DoT increase from Spharai base damage, triple damage hits, added attack, and counter+. Untill they fix Asectic's Fury, I cant see this weapon being worth the time.

Drk scythe: 10 less base damage than Apocalyspe, 30 less accuracy (lets say 10 less accuracy during aftermath if aftermath gives 20acc/att), no double damage procs.
Basically:
103 base damage, hp drain on WS, capped haste for aftermath effect, double procs, and added effect vs. 93 base damage, less acc, and double attack (would probably equal more attack rounds than the capped haste would buy you, but less DoT and no hp drain from WS).

Scholar wp: Less macc and mab than HQ stave... -20 emn during weather casting >.> Enough said.

Theif weapon: Cant use aftermath off hand, just wow.

Nin weapon: One of the worst WSs, cant use off hand, low base damage, enhances Mijin Gakure,.... REALLY!?

Whm: lol

Rdm: enhances convert lol

Brd: Auto Troubodar? i guess..

blm: slightly better than HQ staff (less macc), with boost on ES acc >.>

Rng: Snapshot Q.Q, barrage acc Q.Q

Cor: Mildly decent WS on HNMs.. which you can get w/o the weapon.

Not really going to get into bst, dnc, smn, they are decent for the jobs, but not spectacular.

So that leaves:

1. Burtgang. 10 emn, -10 physical damage, -emnity lost due to damage taken, and a really great WS effect that you can spam to maintain the aftermath. Exceptional sword for being engaged or just standing there taking hits. With the effects of the WS, possible to use every 100tp and keep the aftermath, possibly even outdamaging excal (though excal would probably come ahead depending on mob). I would say at equal cost to excal, this would be one of the harder decisions. Excal offers some good soloing options with the regen effect, added effect damage boost, and attack that pld lacks. But all in all I think Burtgang was everthing plds were hoping for.

2. Dragoon: Finally a relic weapon that doesnt suck (lol added effect spikes). A decent WS that they can spam to maintain aftermath effect, crit hits on all jumps, and decent base damage.

3. Samurai: Depending on what the effect on 3rd eye is, this weapon may exceed amano's realm of shear DD power through DA/acc/attack boost and a decent WS. Will be close, and parses may show a few suprises when people start getting close.

4. War: Conquerer. Sacrifice 5 base damage and some acc for decent WS spam and attacks twice, has alot of potential. Hopefully the enhances bezerk isnt less defence lost Q.Q

5. Blu: Magic accuracy, mp restoral, decent WS, and attacks twice. Nothing touches this for a dedicated blue.


So we have 5 decent weapons, that are possibly better than zilart, and cost about the same or more and take more effort to get.

Opinions?

I don't like some of your opinions.

I really think the sch staff is useful.

[MillionDollarMan]

Just about all of these weapons are better than the old relics. Makes me wonder if SE has any plans to buff relics cause if not then they are a waste to upgrade now. The prices of dynamis coins need to drop a lot.

[Ruiner]

Why?

Because it fucks over dual-wielders by forcing them to choose one. Why shouldn't someone be able to effectively use Mandau/Vajra if they're willing to put in the time/effort/money to upgrade both?

[MillionDollarMan]

They should change all old relics to +60str mod for WS.. I don't understand why Guillotine does more damage than Catastrophe. Of course Apoc does more DOT than standard weapons but I still think SE got things backwards with the first relics. After all these years SE didn't find anything wrong with so I guess things never gonna change.

[Ruiner]

They should change all old relics to +60str mod for WS.. I don't understand why Guillotine does more damage than Catastrophe.

Because Cata also has a ridiculously good Drain effect, along with +10% Haste Aftermath, maybe?

[MillionDollarMan]

Because Cata also has a ridiculously good Drain effect, along with +10% Haste Aftermath, maybe?

You didn't read the next sentence did you? It still doesn't make sense that a level 59 WS is better than a relic WS.

[Neosutra]

I still think apoc would hold out a good deal more against liberator than alot of people here are trying to assert. That being said, Ill add it to the list of "not shitty" weapons.

As for smn and sch weapons:

Sch weapon is still shit, move on.

Smn weapon IS awesome, for a melee smn. And yes, that one smn that has maxed bp TP enhancement for avatar nukes will think its just awesome. But it goes back to the same fact: MELEE fucking smn. Your damage will still suck, your avatars will still have the same timer, and you will buffing the weakest trait of your avatars (nuking).

So far, non shitty mythic (i.e. actually worth upgrading, as i know smn weapon is "just wow" for smn melee...):

Pld, Blu, Drk, War, Drg.

With whm/cor/pup being up there for pretty awesome and usefull, but simply because they have nothing else Q.Q

[Therin]

I still think apoc would hold out a good deal more against liberator than alot of people here are trying to assert. That being said, Ill add it to the list of "not shitty" weapons.

How though? Not saying Apoc isn't a fantastic weapon, but once you stamp 50% double attack rate on a weapon you'd need absolutely godlike stats to compete with it.

[Neosutra]

How though? Not saying Apoc isn't a fantastic weapon, but once you stamp 50% double attack rate on a weapon you'd need absolutely godlike stats to compete with it.

Relax, I added it to the list Q.Q.

Finish your scythe and I save my "told you so" for when you parse agaisnt apoc.

[MillionDollarMan]

The PLD weapon is ok.. I would probably use excalibur over it unless you're tanking pld/war..

[Ruiner]

You didn't read the next sentence did you? It still doesn't make sense that a level 59 WS is better than a relic WS.

Shit, situational, etc. So Cata isn't the best for straight-up damage, it's still useful.

[blue]

Kogarasumaru has "enhances" third and saotome haidate has "augments".
So my money would be a simple enhancement of third eye that makes it like atleast 3 anticipations and not an additional effect like force critical hits.

Even that would be awesome for tanking things like chariots.

[Ruiner]

What does Saotome Haidate's "augments" do to Third Eye?

[Fwahm]

Makes you sometimes counter without Seigan up.

[blue]

It gave the "additional" effect of possible counter attack on third eye. Not sure what it gives now with seigan around tbh^^;

[Amele]

It gave the "additional" effect of possible counter attack on third eye. Not sure what it gives now with seigan around tbh^^;

it went from Third Eye = Counter (at 100%) to a stealth nerf just before seigan was added to "Increases Chance to Counter instead of Anticipate"

it does the same thing for both seigan and non-seigan third eye. increases chance to counter. (From 0% in one case, and like.. what, 10% in the other?)

[MillionDollarMan]

Shit, situational, etc. So Cata isn't the best for straight-up damage, it's still useful.

A relic WS should never be situational..

[Wolfknight]

A relic WS should never be situational..

name one WS relic besides Mercy Strokes, that doesn't have situations where you wouldn't use it.