Mythic vs. Relic, a "Should I upgrade" Thread.

[Neosutra]

Because we fight more than kirin and BP more often than when our pets have 300 tp?

[Kairos]

come on now lol. Last time i fought Kirin was something like 8 months ago. Its been all sea,ground, ZNM, Einherjar, and dynamis for me lately. As far as the 300tp goes, you don't need it. With a 5/5 merit pact you hit 1024 right out of the box and about 1150 with 3-4 hots worth of tp.

[Neosutra]

On what lol.

[Reznap]

It still doesn't make any sense.. You don't upgrade weapons to use old WS... If you wanna justify that then you might as well justify this .

bravura and gungir come to mind. RR+penta > metaton and whatever gungirs ws is called. You may get a pretty new ws, but more often then not your gonna do more dmg with the older ones.

[Kairos]

On pretty much all your ZNM mobs, einherjar mobs and bosses, Most ground NM's (not khimaira though magic resistance bonus) , Magic bursts very well on sandworm NM's. Those pacts are only terrible if you haven't merited them past 2 times or you're getting resisted, which should rarely happen with merit pacts. Works very well on the sea jailers, Tiamat, etc. They're pretty stable.

[Ahlah]

There's a few things wrong here. Its not hateless damage really because if amigo is spamming that, he will die, i've seen it many times doing kirin with smn/bst shells. Jugpets are not the only things that can land hits while a target is moving, all pets can do that. Garland of bliss is also a magical weaponskill that does light based damage and in addition adds a defense down stackable with other defense debuffs, and it can also be used to make light.

I think everyone who's come across nirvana tries really hard to make it look bad when its not. The only thing wrong is the fact that most players get on summoner and never do any techniques other than summon > bloodpact > release. Its no fault of the weapon that using that strategy 100% of the time, you don't get any benefit out of the -perpetuation. There are other things that come into play with the perpetuation and magic attack bonus +20 that's on the staff.

Is this some kind of joke or what? First of all, SMN/BST shell is different from normal alliance because jugpets are your tanks. A good PLD is not going to lose hate everytime a BLM lands Aero IV on Kirin.

Once summoned, Amigo will only last 20mins. If she can pull off 5x1000 needles before it despawns (=15k+ damage/hr from jugpet alone), it will put BST among one of the best DD jobs against HNM. In case your PLD suck so bad that they can't hold hate against a jugpet just pop another Amigo after it's killed. I am sure a BST who can afford Aymur will have no problem buying Sunwater at 10k a pop.

You are not seriously suggesting a SMN sub SAM and move upfront to melee HNM right? Being the job with the lowest def/attak/str/hp and limited melee gear how often do you think SMN will be able to use WS to make skillchain before they die to AOE?

How can MAB20 justify paying 150mil for Nirvana so that you can have stronger merit BP? What is going to happen when the SMN run out of mp (despite free Garuda)? A SMN who release avatar and rest for MP will probably do similar damage if not better than a Nirvana SMN who keep their Avatar out all the time in long run.

Nirvana is nothing more than a solo toy. If it were up to me I would get rid of the -perp cost and allow SMN to rest for mp while Avatar is out.

[Kairos]

I never implied anything about moving up to the front line, you read that in to what i typed about weaponskill similarities. For mp though, I don't tend to run out of mp anymore between sublimation and elemental siphon. With a brd or cor in the party i sped more time trying to burn my mp than trying to recover it. You're also suggesting that a summoner would be leaving an avatar out endlessly. Its not beneficial or wise to play summoner that way either. The summoner can run out of mp using predator claws as well, what's the difference? MP is a limitation that's there for a reason, in varying degrees based on your equipment/mertits. You're making this assumption that since avatar may be left out in some situations that i'm endorsing leaving them out 100% of the time. Resting has its place if you ever start to get low on mp.

Its a decent mythic weapon, but a mythic weapon can't give you adjustments or fixes you want for your job. You just have to accept it for what it is; a unique and rare weapon that is the best staff for the summoner job that offers bonuses of a degree you can't find on any other piece of equipment smn can wear. It surely beats out elemental staves and bahamut's staff for smn.

[Neosutra]

I know a few people with those BPs 5/5 and they dont pull numbers like that on anything good.

In fact, Ill toss merits in one myself and test. But that still doesnt fix your mp management problem if you cant use spirit taker.

[Indalecia]

I have no plans for Nirvana. Simply because the arrangement of the stats on it are retarded.

Good day

[Ahlah]

Its a decent mythic weapon, but a mythic weapon can't give you adjustments or fixes you want for your job. You just have to accept it for what it is; a unique and rare weapon that is the best staff for the summoner job that offers bonuses of a degree you can't find on any other piece of equipment smn can wear. It surely beats out elemental staves and bahamut's staff for smn.

It's nowhere near as useful as Bahamut staff for ppl who focus on physical BP and don't solo. I will take 5 summoning skill over MAB20 anyday. I dont have any summoning skill merit and I use physical BP 90% of the time. Nether Blast is the only magical BP worth using IMO because of consistent damage output and MAB+20 probably only increase its damage by ~100. I am surprised ppl actually go all out to merit Avatar magic attack acc and potency.

I do enjoy farming on SMN/THF. It's definitely not worth spending 150mil for a solo weapon though.

[frodnonnag]

I have no plans for Nirvana. Simply because the arrangement of the stats on it are retarded.

Good day

i have plans for nirvana, simply because i'm an obsessive compulsive hyper focusing nerd. see: my 1.10/1.11 patch D2 summoning necro build. (50+ skill in skeleton, mage, revive, and a perfect thorns aura hireling. i had over 100 pets with the perfect build)


this staff has stats i can use, be it once in awhile or everyday, i couldn't care less if it only had -4 perp, i love my job choice ingame and i want to tweak it out with every single piece of gear i possibly can, no matter how debatable it is.

as for nirvana vs bahamut, both are situational, nirvana is the flashier piece but it doesn't make b-staff useless, and it doesn't make elemental staves useless.

[Kairos]

Netherblast is consistant, but its exactly 50% the damage potential of a fully merited pact, which can be just as consistent. Anyone wanting to take 5 smn skill over 20 avatar MAB is fine, no reason you wouldn't have them both. After getting Nirvana though, Bahamut's staff would become a macro piece for elemental siphon. That's a good boost for avatars in boosting magic damage, and the only reason a portion of the summoner community hates the staff if because it doesn't cater to the predator claws spam method of play. For those of us who find the merit pacts more reliable than physical pacts on most things, the staff offers a nice damage bonus. The nirvana is in no way the best mythic weapon they came up with, but its definitely not the worst. Go check out that sch staff.

Summoner has always had such a wide variety of ways its played compared to a job who's role is made static by the player base. With a job like summoner, they could not have made a staff that would please everyone across all play styles.

[Ahlah]

Netherblast is consistant, but its exactly 50% the damage potential of a fully merited pact, which can be just as consistent. Anyone wanting to take 5 smn skill over 20 avatar MAB is fine, no reason you wouldn't have them both. After getting Nirvana though, Bahamut's staff would become a macro piece for elemental siphon. That's a good boost for avatars in boosting magic damage, and the only reason a portion of the summoner community hates the staff if because it doesn't cater to the predator claws spam method of play. For those of us who find the merit pacts more reliable than physical pacts on most things, the staff offers a nice damage bonus. The nirvana is in no way the best mythic weapon they came up with, but its definitely not the worst. Go check out that sch staff.

The reason why most SMN prefer Predator Claws and Nether Blast is obvious. Physical BPs cost less MP and do significantly more damage than magical BPs under most circumstances. Kairos argued that his/her fully merited magical BP does 1k+ damage consistently. MAB+20 will increase its damage by 20%, we are looking at ~1.3k damage every 50sec-60sec assuming there is no resistance and it still comes with a price tag of 150mil.

The reason why you find magical BP more reliable than physical is because you put your merit in avatar magic att/acc. Even after getting Nirvana, you should always macro in B staff when casting physical BP because Nirvana does nothing to your physcial BP unless you can get the aftermath effect to proc i.e. when you are soloing with Nirvana.

[orson]

Generally all mage mythics are terribly thought out they should have gjven mages and bards new spells/songs that triggered aftermath. Sure give them the new WSs but seriously how realistic is it to expect blm, rdm, sch, whm, etc. to melee. Unless the mage ones have some serious hidden regain effects I can't them being something useful except as some of the most difficult to obtain macro gear.

[Ahlah]

Mage mythic weapons actually have some nice aftermath effect, SE just failed to recognise forcing mage to melee is not the right way to activate them X)

They can patch thing up since no1 has complated upgrade. For example, give BLM and SCH aftermath effect if both jobs successfully carry out magic burst as part of the hidden effects of mythic weapons.

[Amele]

Mage mythic weapons actually have some nice aftermath effect, SE just failed to recognise forcing mage to melee is not the right way to activate them X)

They can patch thing up since no1 has complated upgrade. For example, give BLM and SCH aftermath effect if both jobs successfully carry out magic burst as part of the hidden effects of mythic weapons.

and how would you activate the latent on whitemage or redmage or summoner?

[Ruiner]

and how would you activate the latent on whitemage or redmage or summoner?

Have the relic give you a new spell or something, and using that spell activates the aftermath.

[Ahlah]

and how would you activate the latent on whitemage or redmage or summoner?

All mythic weapons should allow player to activate aftermath effect without using mythic weaponskill when a job specific JA is activated, few example:

WAR: "Warcry"
MNK: "Counterstance"
BLM: "Elemental seal", magic burst
WHM: "Divine Seal", magic burst with banish on skeleton and ghost
SMN: "Elemental Siphon", avatar magic burst
PLD: "Holy circle"
RDM: "Convert", after RDM successfully inflict 4 different debuffs on the same mob
BRD: "Nightingale" + "Troubadour", after BRD successlully inflict 3 different debuffs on the same mob
NIN: "Sange", after completing one full elemental wheel

I know some of them sound crazy X) but you get my ideas

[Neosutra]

But ya, anyways...

Shitty relic/mythics:

All mage ones, thf mythic, nin mythic, mnk mythic, lolclaustrum.

Awesome relics/mythics:

Drk relic/mythic(I still think apoc > liberator Q.Q), Aegis, Ghorn, Burtgang, Conquerer, most zilart relics save mage ones Q.Q.

As always, every person is "entitled" to upgrade whatever the fuck they want. But in analysis of worth vs. usefullness, some just fail.

Still going to anxiously await apoc vs. liberator results. Full time hasso + max haste + 10 more base damage + 20 constant acc + double damage + drain effect on WS > 10 less base damage + double attack + a bit more attack during aftermath Q.Q.