Mythic vs. Relic, a "Should I upgrade" Thread.

[Neosutra]

I wanted to get other people's feedback on the weapons for each job, and talk about which weapons are worth upgrading over traditional Dynamis relics, due to superior/non traditional stats/abilities.

In this discusion, you can debate which will end up being cheaper (as the prices have not stabilized, we will assume they cost the same, causing mythic to actually be harder due to the other requirements).

Want to get everyone's opinions now that the WSs are out, and people are seeing just what they would be using every 100tp or so to maintain the aftermath effects.

For this comparison, I am going to assume aftermath works like current dynamis relic and lasts 20secs for 100tp, 40 for 200tp, and 60 for 300tp. Also assuming the aftermath acc/att will be ~20+

Weapons I would say get dismissed as useless to upgrade immediately:

Mnk h2h: Really crappy WS, loss in DoT from WSs alone may be made up from "occasionally attacks twice" and perhaps a boost to focus length/potency. DoT would probably be less spamming this than the simple DoT increase from Spharai base damage, triple damage hits, added attack, and counter+. Untill they fix Asectic's Fury, I cant see this weapon being worth the time.

Scholar wp: Less macc and mab than HQ stave... -20 emn during weather casting >.> Enough said.

Theif weapon: Cant use aftermath off hand, just wow.

Nin weapon: One of the worst WSs, cant use off hand, low base damage, enhances Mijin Gakure,.... REALLY!?

Whm: lol. That being said, constant divine veil IS awesome, but 150 mil and 6 months of quests work for the ability to not have an erase twice is hmmm.

Rdm: enhances convert lol

Brd: Auto Troubodar? i guess.. has potential.

Blm: slightly better than HQ staff (less macc), with boost on ES acc >.> or recast?

Rng: Snapshot Q.Q, barrage acc Q.Q

Cor: Mildly decent WS on HNMs.. which you can get w/o the weapon.

Not really going to get into bst, dnc, smn, they are decent for the jobs, but not spectacular improvements.

So that leaves:

1. Burtgang. 10 emn, -10 physical damage, -emnity lost due to damage taken, and a really great WS effect that you can spam to maintain the aftermath. Exceptional sword for being engaged or just standing there taking hits. With the effects of the WS, possible to use every 100tp and keep the aftermath, possibly even outdamaging excal (though excal would probably come ahead depending on mob). I would say at equal cost to excal, this would be one of the harder decisions. Excal offers some good soloing options with the regen effect, added effect damage boost, and attack that pld lacks. But all in all I think Burtgang was everthing plds were hoping for.

2. Dragoon: Finally a relic weapon that doesnt suck (lol added effect spikes). A decent WS that they can spam to maintain aftermath effect, crit hits on all jumps, and decent base damage.

3. Samurai: Depending on what the effect on 3rd eye is, this weapon may exceed amano's realm of shear DD power through DA/acc/attack boost and a decent WS. Will be close, and parses may show a few suprises when people start getting close.

4. War: Conquerer. Sacrifice 5 base damage and some acc for decent WS spam and attacks twice, has alot of potential. Hopefully the enhances bezerk isnt less defence lost Q.Q

5. Blu:Magic accuracy, mp restoral, decent WS, and attacks twice. Nothing touches this for a dedicated blue.

6. Drk: Perhaps more DoT than apoc?


So we have 6 decent weapons, that are possibly better than zilart, and cost about the same or more and take more effort to get.

Opinions?

[Max™]

*chants*

Conqueror, Conqueror, Conqueror!

Really though, get a Burtgang, Burtgang/Aegis is goddamn sexy.

[Marcicus]

I'm not going to see the point of Excalibur on PLD once s/he gets Burtgang, but I guess you could always Dual-Weild.

[Sai]

Whm: lol

I'm not understanding this, I'm a whm main and I see Yagrush as one of the most useful mythic weapons out of all of them. Permanent Divine Veil allows a good whm that's quick with '-na' spells to become even more useful. It's a godsend to every whm out there that has had to deal with shitty whm partners that can't read when detrimental effects hit people in your alliance.

I always thought the other whms out there agreed that Yagrush was useful. Though, there was some anger about how SE was 'fixing' whm (in comparision to scholar) through a mythic weapon.

[Slott]

I'm not going to see the point of Excalibur on PLD once s/he gets Burtgang, but I guess you could always Dual-Weild.

No, you really can't anymore. Relic and mythic suck dick offhand. GG absolutely no stats but damage delay offhand.

[Zhais]

you forgot smn weapon, which the -4 perp cost is essentially all HQ staves.

and if you can get the TP for it, aftermath effect for avatars is sexy as hell

[Therin]

Neo - Liberator, Conqueror, and Ryunohige will all outparse their Dynamis equivalents since the WSes are nice and you can spam them (it may be true that the double attack might not outweigh Apocalypse's extra haste and damage in terms of DoT, but Insurgency is stronger than Catastrophe and you'd be building TP half again as fast, so the only situation that Apocalypse wins out is in tanking for the Drain effect).

All three of this weapons are outright broken for their jobs and I can't wait to see people start tearing up parses with them.

[Amele]

I'm not understanding this, I'm a whm main and I see Yagrush as one of the most useful mythic weapons out of all of them. Permanent Divine Veil allows a good whm that's quick with '-na' spells to become even more useful. It's a godsend to every whm out there that has had to deal with shitty whm partners that can't read when detrimental effects hit people in your alliance.

I always thought the other whms out there agreed that Yagrush was useful. Though, there was some anger about how SE was 'fixing' whm (in comparision to scholar) through a mythic weapon.

it's a good stat but it's sooo not worth letting SE make me run all over creation and spend 150mil for what amounts to a My Little Pony band-aid (shiny but still a band-aid)

[nsx]

you forgot smn weapon, which the -4 perp cost is essentially all HQ staves.

and if you can get the TP for it, aftermath effect for avatars is sexy as hell

HQ staves are -3, same as Baha staff.

Mythic is HQ2 staves. It owns.

[Marcicus]

No, you really can't anymore. Relic and mythic suck dick offhand. GG absolutely no stats but damage delay offhand.

woosh.

Here's hoping Conquerer adds more attack to Berserk instead of working like AF2 boots. >(

[Kaeko]

BLM weapon and SCH weapon are both weaker than HQ staves prior to aftermath. Someone might have to bite the bullet to find out the ES upgrade on the BLM one though. SCH one blows.

[Enygma55]

What if Augment Elemental Seal means no recast? How awesome would that weapon be then ?

I wouldnt put it past them since whm get full time divine veil.

[Kilhart]

Death Penalty (unless SE fucks up THAT bad) will most likely be the best gun for Quick Draw, by far, making it essentially the best HNM gun for COR. Useless to upgrade? Not too sure about that.

[Ruiner]

No, you really can't anymore. Relic and mythic suck dick offhand. GG absolutely no stats but damage delay offhand.

Excal's additional effect doesn't proc offhand?

[Sekkite]

DRK Scythe: The accuracy bonus of Aftermath is unknown at this point, so to assume it gives +20 accuracy is a fallacy. And where are you getting +30 accuracy for Apocalypse? It says +20 accuracy right in the description.

The dev team stated that the Aftermath effect is supposed to be very generous. At the fan festival, the double attack rate was about the same as virtue weapons (50%~). Also, we don't know how absorbs are going to be augmented. For all we know, it could make them all instant cast or tack on an additional effect to each absorb I.E. absorb-STR absorbing attack as well, absorb-DEX absorbing acc, ect ect.

Don't discount something before you know what it does.

[Neosutra]

I would say apoc would not be blown away by liberator, and would still think apoc would come ahead in DoT and overall usefullness.

As for the whms club's divine veil: a shit ton of gil and work for the luxury of not casting a spell another 1 to 2 times in a party. It IS awesome and nice, but is it worth the effort?

Also, lolmelee smn.

[Neosutra]

DRK Scythe: The accuracy bonus of Aftermath is unknown at this point, so to assume it gives +20 accuracy is a fallacy. And where are you getting +30 accuracy for Apocalypse? It says +20 accuracy right in the description.

The dev team stated that the Aftermath effect is supposed to be very generous. At the fan festival, the double attack rate was about the same as virtue weapons (50%~). Also, we don't know how absorbs are going to be augmented. For all we know, it could make them all instant cast or tack on an additional effect to each absorb I.E. absorb-STR absorbing attack as well, absorb-DEX absorbing acc, ect ect.

Don't discount something before you know what it does.

If you think the aftermath acc/attack bonus is going to be much more than 20 you havent played FFXI very long. And lol at instacast absorb spells and additional effects. You underestimate what SE considers overpowered.

[Hoshiku]

I'm not understanding this, I'm a whm main and I see Yagrush as one of the most useful mythic weapons out of all of them. Permanent Divine Veil allows a good whm that's quick with '-na' spells to become even more useful. It's a godsend to every whm out there that has had to deal with shitty whm partners that can't read when detrimental effects hit people in your alliance.

I always thought the other whms out there agreed that Yagrush was useful. Though, there was some anger about how SE was 'fixing' whm (in comparision to scholar) through a mythic weapon.

agreed, perma divine veil is amazing. paying 90 million gil for it, not so much. i actually thought offhand that the only mythic weapons worth upgrading were whm and pld.

[frodnonnag]

summoner weapon is a massive boost. that perp-4 means garuda or fenrir are free with all other perp gear and sanction. the MAB to avatar is the only item in the game that gives that boost permanently. the aftermath is ridiculous, i foresee crazy spike bp rages from that, especially if double attack is on the avatar too. and finally, although untested, i feel the weapon skill is useful, more so than claustrum's refresh, if that WS stacks with stuff like angon, it could be almost worth it to lolmelee as smn in a melee zerg setup.

[Almalexia]

Weapons I would say get dismissed as useless to upgrade immediately:

Mnk h2h: Really crappy WS, loss in DoT from WSs alone may be made up from "occasionally attacks twice" and perhaps a boost to focus length/potency. DoT would probably be less spamming this than the simple DoT increase from Spharai base damage, triple damage hits, added attack, and counter+. Untill they fix Asectic's Fury, I cant see this weapon being worth the time.

no u