I'd expect this from someone like Stanislav, but SapereAude...?

[Rishi]

I wonder what's up with the stuff about how SV people voicing complaints will be Joseph Stalin'd ... if you have smack to post about SV but are afraid to do it under your own name, what stops you from making a fake useraccount/LJ/whatever, post a SS of a LSmes to prove you've got a pearl, and let drama ensue? What are the big mean sackholders gonna do in retribution, leave nasty comments about sand and vags?

I don't know jack shit about if SV has or doesn't have problems, but something kinda seems wrong about saying you can't speak up on the internet.

[Lampoon]

When will people realize that by making rediculous LS rules to weed out self-serving pricks from an LS hurts more decent players who actually care for LS as a whole than aforementioned douchebags? Maybe I'm wrong, it could just be a power trip issue.

[Jackyl]

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/7573/polllg2.jpg

So there you go. An anonymous poll showing 8.3% of our members being discontent at the moment. As mentioned earlier, can't make everyone happy right?

And to set the record straight.. -_- From 7 AV kills, we've gotten:
7 Rods/7 Mars's/7 Bellona's/4 Minerva/5 Ninurta/3 Aureole/1 Futsuno

Rods are lol. (if you care: 2 were given to members so they can true strike with them lol)
2 Mars's were given to members, 2 are being purchased by leader and sack for 25m each, and rest up for sale/sold.
3 Bellona's were given to members, rest up for sale/sold.
1 Minerva was given to member, rest up for sale/sold.
3 N.sashes were given to leader/sacks, 1 giver to member, 1 up for sale/sold.
3 Aureole's were given to members.
1 Futsuno is being held by LS for everyone to pass around and use.

So out of 27 non-rod AV drops, leader/sacks got exactly 3, members got 9, and rest are being sold.

Why are we not giving them all out? Because we believe the rest of the people are either not deserving of them, are too new to receive them, or have been compensated by other items recently. The option to buy them for members were given in an attempt to keep the rare items within the LS and yet offer a very large discount. Do you know anyone else selling a Mars's ring for 25m?

Oh, and a note about favoritism. Yeah, we have favorites. Do you know how people become a favorite of leader/sacks? By showing up to events consistently, not whining, not creating drama, showing initiative, following directions well, and being a good member of the LS. Do we treat our favorites better than others perhaps? Fuck yes we do.

[Callisto]

Oh, and a note about favoritism. Yeah, we have favorites. Do you know how people become a favorite of leader/sacks? By showing up to events consistently, not whining, not creating drama, showing initiative, following directions well, and being a good member of the LS. Do we treat our favorites better than others perhaps? Fuck yes we do.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


THAT


And man we must be doing it wrong, everyone here is like 'oh yeah sacks get all the gear in every LS that's normal'...in the last year I think our officers have taken away maybe 1/3 the gear of any normal member who has been in the shell 6 months or more, but put in twice the work.

[Vyerz]

Personally I always thought the trade off of become a leader was that you got to yell at everyone and they'd listen to you

[Callisto]

Personally I always thought the trade off of become a leader was that you got to yell at everyone and they'd listen to you

The first half is correct at least.

[Yugl]

Possibly true, but I'm not interested enough to get into a theoretical debate.

Yugl, if you don't notice the same trend in everyday life I would love to be in your position. People making a conscious effort to impose their opinions on something they aren't affected by occurs all too often from my perspective.

I never said that your philosophy could not apply to me, but it's ignorant to make a generalization as you did based entirely on your observation. If you look beyond domestic affairs, then you can see many situations in which your statement is false. How many in the US would care if they found out a plane bound for Britain arrived 10 minutes late or that a new car store opened up in Russia? Probably not many.

[Cadsuane]

So there you go. An anonymous poll showing 8.3% of our members being discontent at the moment. As mentioned earlier, can't make everyone happy right?

And to set the record straight.. -_- From 7 AV kills, we've gotten:
7 Rods/7 Mars's/7 Bellona's/4 Minerva/5 Ninurta/3 Aureole/1 Futsuno

Rods are lol. (if you care: 2 were given to members so they can true strike with them lol)
2 Mars's were given to members, 2 are being purchased by leader and sack for 25m each, and rest up for sale/sold.
3 Bellona's were given to members, rest up for sale/sold.
1 Minerva was given to member, rest up for sale/sold.
3 N.sashes were given to leader/sacks, 1 giver to member, 1 up for sale/sold.
3 Aureole's were given to members.
1 Futsuno is being held by LS for everyone to pass around and use.

So out of 27 non-rod AV drops, leader/sacks got exactly 3, members got 9, and rest are being sold.

Why are we not giving them all out? Because we believe the rest of the people are either not deserving of them, are too new to receive them, or have been compensated by other items recently. The option to buy them for members were given in an attempt to keep the rare items within the LS and yet offer a very large discount. Do you know anyone else selling a Mars's ring for 25m?

Oh, and a note about favoritism. Yeah, we have favorites. Do you know how people become a favorite of leader/sacks? By showing up to events consistently, not whining, not creating drama, showing initiative, following directions well, and being a good member of the LS. Do we treat our favorites better than others perhaps? Fuck yes we do.

Or it could just be that your LS members are either bitch ass sycophants or too stupid to realize they're being fucked up the ass by their sackholders. Wouldn't exactly be the first time I've seen a disgraceful but stable LS.

[Crisco]

The internet has brought about new ways of having childish temper tantrums. For all those people saying LS leaders get more than what they deserve...get real. Granted it can happen in some LS's, but it's not completely common. Saying they get more gear than general members...why shouldn't they? Do most of you understand what it takes to lead/run a successful HNM/End-game linkshell? In the real world, if you're in a higher position than the guy next to you, it's likely you get paid more, right? Same concept should follow here. Just because a general member may have just as much DPK or more, doesn't always mean they deserve <insert item> more than a leader/officer. There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that members don't see, which when they fail to factor that in, causes things like this.

Naturally there will always be fairness, if even just a little bit, when determining drops. If you look close enough you will see it. If there isn't, it will be obvious and you should either just accept it or leave the shell. No one is forcing you to stay in an unfair linkshell.

[Kaibelf]

Sure at times certain things weren't fair (like LS leaders GF getting gaiters when she rarely showed up to anything, etc), but you know what's more unfair? Having people like you always in MY ear because I would actually listen to your concerns and then relay it amongst the other leaders in the LS.

Wow.... there are so many things wrong with this statement. Nothing more horrible than someone in a leadership position approving of unfair practices because they were tired of dealing with the concerns of the members they were selected to represent. Being a LS leader never was easy, but I would never, EVER begrudge people their right to express their concerns in whatever way they saw fit. It was part of being a leader, which (I guess in my own naive way) I assumed was to provide guidance and accept responsibility in addition to glory and authority. The pride of the team progressing and helping facilitate that was far more important than a bitchy phone call once in a while. Oh well.

[Khalil]

Wow.... there are so many things wrong with this statement. Nothing more horrible than someone in a leadership position approving of unfair practices because they were tired of dealing with the concerns of the members they were selected to represent. Being a LS leader never was easy, but I would never, EVER begrudge people their right to express their concerns in whatever way they saw fit. It was part of being a leader, which (I guess in my own naive way) I assumed was to provide guidance and accept responsibility in addition to glory and authority. The pride of the team progressing and helping facilitate that was far more important than a bitchy phone call once in a while. Oh well.

Think you missed the rest of his post. He stated that he spoke to the other leaders. He also wrote that that same person would be skipping events, thus being a hypocrite.

[bombard]

Kaibelf, sorry if I wasn't clear.
What I meant to portray was I would always listen to all pearl's complaints/gripes/concerns and try my best to find them a solution/answer other than the "that's just the way it is, deal with it" answer, unless it came to that point, which we all know can happen when people just can't accept an answer and just keep nagging.

Please try to understand what I'm trying to portray, and being a Leader is very easy if you are always consistent and even-handed with all dealings, well as long as all your other co-leaders are always on the same page.

[Whaleporn]

I've learned long ago that, as a linkshell matures, it's distribution and attendance start setting up often unfair *sounding* systems to deal with real problems they've had in the past. All the people blowing their load over what sounds like a 'horribly unfair system' probably never have taken a leadership role in an endgame shell.

If there's really something wrong with the system, the smart players will leave. WILL. Double You, Eye, Ell, Ell.

The only people that can really comment here are players from SA's server. I'm guessing from the fact that the LS could take down AV in a matter of seconds that it's not a case of the leadership riding a wave of new players for elite gear. I've seen that before: There are people who bite at scraps because they are taunted with a circle-jerk of amazing gear that comes from selling everything that drops and giving it to the sackholders/their friends. Just look for a shell where 2/3 members have terrible gear, and the other 1/3 seem to all have salvage bodies and relics.

Also, 36 people respond to that poll inside of a day or so, and only 3 actually have a problem? That's pretty bullet-proof.

[Weeks]

It probably wouldn't have made much of a difference had he done it properly, but Jackyl's wording of the poll definitely tarnishes the results.

[Cloudius]

What's wrong with his wording?
He actually made a poll to please you ppl, and whoever the anon that made this thread, yet you're still complaining? awesome.

Now that I got a better idea of how they give away the items (and not just what the OP told us), I actually agree with what they did, although it's non of my ( or any of us ) business.

[Weeks]

Is that a serious question?

I'm going to guess that no Gallup/Zogby/Reuters poll contains the question "Are you REALLY unhappy with Bush's handling of the economy as our little birdy at the New York Times says you should be?"

This was apparently intended for public consumption, and yet the question was posed in such a slanted way. That's ridiculous.

He actually made a poll to please you ppl, and whoever the anon that made this thread, yet you're still complaining? awesome.

Actually, I said earlier that it was quite feasible that their handling of this entire issue was fair. The only thing I'm complaining about is the obviously-tainted poll.

[Mojo]

I don't really care much about drama, but I will agree that the poll was somewhat slippery. A more appropriate question would have been "How do you feel about the way Absolute Virtue drops have been handled?" The way it's worded now is going to gauge a positive response and fails to properly address the 'key issue.'

[Clyne]

What's wrong with his wording?

The wording really is terrible as it pertains to this thread. Maybe it wouldn't matter to the end result, but if I was a member, as the information has been presented here, including what the leaders have contributed, I would vote /yes to the poll because I'd be "generally happy" with the state of the LS...but I'd be really fuking pissed off about the handling of the AV drops.

"Do you think the distribution/handling of our AV drops was handled fairly?" would be a more accurate poll question.

[Xanthu]

being a Leader is very easy

I call Bullshit. Even trying to help co-lead an LS of apx 10-15 people on small things like salvage, small-mid NMs, and Sky, leading is an incredible challenge. Are you going to tell me it gets easier with more people?

[Cairthenn]

I never said that your philosophy could not apply to me, but it's ignorant to make a generalization as you did based entirely on your observation. If you look beyond domestic affairs, then you can see many situations in which your statement is false. How many in the US would care if they found out a plane bound for Britain arrived 10 minutes late or that a new car store opened up in Russia? Probably not many.

Fallacy of composition, I didn't say it applied to everything - it just seems to be increasingly popular.