I'd expect this from someone like Stanislav, but SapereAude...?

[Senoska]

They didn't take it down yet, they're just keeping their attempts (and strategies during those attempts) private.

Which hampers the progress of the ENTIRE FFXI community. It's a total cockblock. They obviously used information from the other thread when it had popped up, but refuse to give what they take. I guess you can't expect more from a shell that is obviously jacking its own members, and don't even really deny doing so.

For the record, I can't imagine anyone having a problem with an LS selling items to LS members, and something as highly prized as an AV item and the money it can fetch in the market, totally understandable.

What I and I assume others have a problem with is the fact they give it to some people for free while charging other's for it, specifically giving items to sack holders. It's wrong and honestly people shouldn't stay in this shell.

The only reason I can imagine anyone staying there is that they have been there so long that leaving at this point would put them in a worse spot than just staying and hoping that all their leaders gets an item before them.

This is kind of funny, in the Alla pic thread there was a post posted about a Dynamis LS with a guy giving his leaders all items first, and then everyone else, and this guy was laughed at on BG and in alla. It's sad when Alla can see the problem with this before the majority of the people here.

What's all the complaining going to do? Nothing. But at least in my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't matter to them or anyone else, I view people in this shell in a negitive light.

Best of luck with your P.w kill, I hope you get ganked on drops; like you're ganking the community and your members.

[Day]

Which hampers the progress of the ENTIRE FFXI community. It's a total cockblock. They obviously used information from the other thread when it had popped up, but refuse to give what they take. I guess you can't expect more from a shell that is obviously jacking its own members, and don't even really deny doing so.

For the record, I can't imagine anyone having a problem with an LS selling items to LS members, and something as highly prized as an AV item and the money it can fetch in the market, totally understandable.

What I and I assume others have a problem with is the fact they give it to some people for free while charging other's for it, specifically giving items to sack holders. It's wrong and honestly people shouldn't stay in this shell.

The only reason I can imagine anyone staying there is that they have been there so long that leaving at this point would put them in a worse spot than just staying and hoping that all their leaders gets an item before them.

This is kind of funny, in the Alla pic thread there was a post posted about a Dynamis LS with a guy giving his leaders all items first, and then everyone else, and this guy was laughed at on BG and in alla. It's sad when Alla can see the problem with this before the majority of the people here.

What's all the complaining going to do? Nothing. But at least in my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't matter to them or anyone else, I view people in this shell in a negitive light.

Best of luck with your P.w kill, I hope you get ganked on drops; like you're ganking the community and your members.

I agree with all those words.

[Feedmenow]

Which hampers the progress of the ENTIRE FFXI community. It's a total cockblock. They obviously used information from the other thread when it had popped up, but refuse to give what they take.

Heaven forbid they test the theories and strategies they come up with before making it public?

[Niki]

Heaven forbid they test the theories and strategies they come up with before making it public?

I think Senoska means if other people didnt make their theories and strategies public right away, SA wouldnt be that far. So SA profit of other people making their tests public and they self keep it secret.
I can't say if thats the case, just translating so you understand it.

[Jackyl]

Which hampers the progress of the ENTIRE FFXI community. It's a total cockblock. They obviously used information from the other thread when it had popped up, but refuse to give what they take. I guess you can't expect more from a shell that is obviously jacking its own members, and don't even really deny doing so.

For the record, I can't imagine anyone having a problem with an LS selling items to LS members, and something as highly prized as an AV item and the money it can fetch in the market, totally understandable.

What I and I assume others have a problem with is the fact they give it to some people for free while charging other's for it, specifically giving items to sack holders. It's wrong and honestly people shouldn't stay in this shell.

The only reason I can imagine anyone staying there is that they have been there so long that leaving at this point would put them in a worse spot than just staying and hoping that all their leaders gets an item before them.

This is kind of funny, in the Alla pic thread there was a post posted about a Dynamis LS with a guy giving his leaders all items first, and then everyone else, and this guy was laughed at on BG and in alla. It's sad when Alla can see the problem with this before the majority of the people here.

What's all the complaining going to do? Nothing. But at least in my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't matter to them or anyone else, I view people in this shell in a negitive light.

Best of luck with your P.w kill, I hope you get ganked on drops; like you're ganking the community and your members.

1. We decide who deserves free AV items and who doesn't, not you.
2. Whether we decide to release information about our events is our prerogative. You mentioned "progress of the entire FFXI community." Do you not remember the pages beyond pages of stupid, asinine comments and ideas people came up with for AV and PW in the recent months? I do. When we have good information worth releasing that the community can benefit from, we will do so. Am I going to create another retarded thread so people can be retarded for 50 pages? I think I'll pass.

[Norellicus]

Don't really care about the loot bs myself, and only know that I wouldn't join a shell with that setup.

But on this:

As for the PW.
Lets see here.. We posted about us killing AV.
If we kept it to ourselfs just a little longer we may have had a good month before it got nerf'd, hard to say.
So ya we popp'd it. It sucked, the fight is different now and we learned some shit and lost time exp and our 3rd PW set. We also think we can kill it now with what we learned and will happily report on it when/if we KILL it.
If you wanna know about PW, pop PW.

I think your comments above are a naive justification for staying on the down-low; I'd like to think most of us know SE is more in-tune with what's happening in their game than they let on, they're just slow to react to a lot of the issues that are important to us. But I'd bet money they would have reacted with much the same speed to AV whether or not it was publicized, and possibly would have dealt with it even faster than they did were it not for the impending major version update.

If SE doesn't like how you kill PW, I'm sure we'll see change take place pretty rapidly, no matter how much you try to keep it a secret.

As it stands, keeping your PW info quiet is only denying yourselves the use of the BG thinktank, and denying the rest of us the ability to compare notes and not have to duplicate efforts.

[Senoska]

1. We decide who deserves free AV items and who doesn't, not you.
2. Whether we decide to release information about our events is our prerogative. You mentioned "progress of the entire FFXI community." Do you not remember the pages beyond pages of stupid, asinine comments and ideas people came up with for AV and PW in the recent months? I do. When we have good information worth releasing that the community can benefit from, we will do so. Am I going to create another retarded thread so people can be retarded for 50 pages? I think I'll pass.

You obviously seem to think you have good information on PW seeing as you think you can kill it in "One or two more pops." Don't try to talk your way out of it. Those threads were made up of people who have really never popped AV or PW and have no real solid information, UNLIKE yourself. This is how strats for most mobs are made, collective information from the community. Your LS has already said that you don't want your information getting out because you fear it will be nurfed, not because you want to withhold the information "Until we know what to do". Even subtle clues as to PWs workings helps LS's popping him get a better understanding, which you're withholding.

[Max™]

Which hampers the progress of the ENTIRE FFXI community. It's a total cockblock. They obviously used information from the other thread when it had popped up, but refuse to give what they take. I guess you can't expect more from a shell that is obviously jacking its own members, and don't even really deny doing so.

For the record, I can't imagine anyone having a problem with an LS selling items to LS members, and something as highly prized as an AV item and the money it can fetch in the market, totally understandable.

What I and I assume others have a problem with is the fact they give it to some people for free while charging other's for it, specifically giving items to sack holders. It's wrong and honestly people shouldn't stay in this shell.

The only reason I can imagine anyone staying there is that they have been there so long that leaving at this point would put them in a worse spot than just staying and hoping that all their leaders gets an item before them.

This is kind of funny, in the Alla pic thread there was a post posted about a Dynamis LS with a guy giving his leaders all items first, and then everyone else, and this guy was laughed at on BG and in alla. It's sad when Alla can see the problem with this before the majority of the people here.

What's all the complaining going to do? Nothing. But at least in my opinion, which I'm sure doesn't matter to them or anyone else, I view people in this shell in a negitive light.

Best of luck with your P.w kill, I hope you get ganked on drops; like you're ganking the community and your members.

I agree with all those words.

I agree with all of them except that one in bold.

[Lampoon]

I can't imagine anyone selling as rare item as that from AV after obtaining it through your Linkshell. Unless you're an RMTing moron who rather sell it off and then sell gil or item itself for real money, you are better off keeping an item on your account and be "the guy with a cool item" everyone talks about when it comes to discussing who has what on your server. With that said, their decision to "ensure the items stay within LS" is outright paranoid and greedy.

[Cairthenn]

As it stands, keeping your PW info quiet is only denying yourselves the use of the BG thinktank, and denying the rest of us the ability to compare notes and not have to duplicate efforts.

They obviously care very much. I believe they already explained why they're keeping quiet.

Complaining to them won't solve shit.

[Senoska]

I can't imagine anyone selling as rare item as that from AV after obtaining it through your Linkshell. Unless you're an RMTing moron who rather sell it off and then sell gil or item itself for real money, you are better off keeping an item on your account and be "the guy with a cool item" everyone talks about when it comes to discussing who has what on your server. With that said, their decision to "ensure the items stay within LS" is outright paranoid and greedy.

Because gil is only for RMTing, not bettering the entire LS instead of slightly enhancing one person, obviously.
edit: Maybe I misunderstood are you saying one person getting an item and then selling it off or are you saying the LS is wrong for selling it as a group? I'm all for selling items as a group, what i'm not for and I think is a dick move is selling some items to the people who helped you get that item and keeping others.

[Derf]

As said before, the LS as a group is selling them to help fund for salvage bodies/pieces for the linkshell along with many other benefits that the linkshell bank lets members enjoy. So by selling we are bettering the entire linkshell.

[Lampoon]

My point was about selling items to your LS members because leadership being paranoid about someone selling a received item. I understand selling item outside LS to bolster your LS bank, so they can buy other items that can be used to improve LS overall, but why charge people people for something they deserve through hard work and dedication? That's like a slap in the face.

Frankly, it's none of leadership's business if someone sells an item they earned through attending events. You earned it, it's yours to do with as you please. The difference is, being smart about keeping an item to improve you toon or sell it for profit. I'm sure if the latter were to happen, person's rep in LS would fall drastically to a point of being booted.

There's no way to force someone to stay in LS, nor should it be ever done, after they obtain an item, rare as it may be. It's up to the person's moral stand point to make a decision on their own. Your toon is yours, not a property of LS.

[Therin]

I'm going to guess that no Gallup/Zogby/Reuters poll contains the question "Are you REALLY unhappy with Bush's handling of the economy as our little birdy at the New York Times says you should be?"

I'd vote "Fuck no" regardless and I think most people who have either bought a gallon of gas, a loaf of bread, or paid an electric bill recently would also.

Also, in case you forgot, SA was one of the first LSes to attempt PW. They might've taken some of the information that BtL posted for their recent attempt, but a lot of the information that BtL got came from SA (if I remember correctly). If I'm recalling this incorrectly please say so, but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened.

[Cow_k]

2. Whether we decide to release information about our events is our prerogative. You mentioned "progress of the entire FFXI community." Do you not remember the pages beyond pages of stupid, asinine comments and ideas people came up with for AV and PW in the recent months? I do. When we have good information worth releasing that the community can benefit from, we will do so. Am I going to create another retarded thread so people can be retarded for 50 pages? I think I'll pass.

AKA: After we're done selling all the drops for high prices or after someone else posts the info first~ I mean, it's already out there, at least be honest.

As said before, the LS as a group is selling them to help fund for salvage bodies/pieces for the linkshell sackholders along with many other benefits that the linkshell bank lets sackholders enjoy. So by selling we are bettering the sackholders.

From what's been posted here.... fixed~

[Lampoon]

It would give Linkshells more reason's to keep secrets on how they kill stuff.

[Shini]

OP: yanno... I was a leader in a Linkshell for many years that operated on a favortism basis (so it seemed). I always got tells, emails, private vent convos, phone calls, etc about people who would always whine and bitch about 'omg so and so shouldn't be getting that' and so on. You know how sickening people like you are that bitch on a constant basis?
Sure at times certain things weren't fair (like LS leaders GF getting gaiters when she rarely showed up to anything, etc), but you know what's more unfair? Having people like you always in MY ear because I would actually listen to your concerns and then relay it amongst the other leaders in the LS. Then after I'd argue your case amongst the other leaders and stood up for you, where would you be? Skipping an event to level <insertlvl12dunesjobhere>, complaining to other pearls and causing unrest amongst the LS at events, or other random asshattery. You're the same type of person i've always delt with and stood up for in the past, yet when my ass was on the line you would be the first one there trying to suck ass to take my place within the LS. Eventually a few of us got sick of how the LS worked and eventually made a new linkshell with what we thought would be the most fair for everyone, instead of dragging our current and former friends and linkshell mates out into the public drama.

As far as the buying drops is concerned. OMG the sky is falling. In our LS if you want to upgrade your relic, then you buy currency from LS dynamis runs (for a reasonable rate). OMG THATS SO UNFAIR! oh wait a minute, we also have a bank payout to all LS members every month! Jumpin' Jesus, now wait a minute here ...

They're not killing the baby Jesus. They're doing things how they want in the linkshell. Just leave if you don't like it. You're not the only one who's been screwed over, nor will you be the last.

Is there a section on this board that is dedicated to bleeding hearts? I think it would make for a fine interesting read when bored at work.

Bomb, you know and I know though, that some of the "bitching" was actually needed. There is a difference. Whining that a member got gear that said "whining person" thinks they don't deserve (when they do) is 1 thing. Whining cause a certain member doesn't deserve 75% of the gear they get is another. I remember, as you do too, constantly defending the lesser people in the LS so they could get some gear instead of the sacks cock-suckers who would constantly get gear for jobs they don't even level.

To elaborate on your "Ass on the line part". Know whats even better? Dealing with member problems, going to OTHER SACKS in CONFIDENCE they won't take it to the leader yet until more info is known, then having THOSE SACKS go behind your back to get you in trouble, saying you're starting shit.

It's not just a few of us though, cause no offense, you can't toot that all you that left are that amazing and shit. Since, well, you have one of the officers who hardly showed up to shit, and somehow managed to walk away with a lot of gear, kick random people, and yelled at members who had NFC who he was cause he was never on.

Also, you did leave. But by damn, you guys sure did start one hell of a recruitment fest to try and get our members to join you.

I don't hate you guys though, happy that you're happy. Just wish I had fucked off outta FS way back when I app'd FM. Just wish

Should hit me up sometime ingame, when you aren't afk you asshat. Trying to talk to you is impossible, you AFK longer then a PLD.

...


Oh ya, those Gaiters? Remember them? You remember how me & "her" were suppose to share them, since 90% of the LS said she didn't deserve them? I seen them 1 day: The day they dropped.

Where are they now, you ask? Well, on her DEACTIVATED toon. I asked for them the other day, since she wasn't using them. Guess what I got for a response.... phone her up and get them yourself. Hehe, awesome. Glad I got an infinite supply of Sprinter's Shoes^^

[bombard]

You're an idiot.

Says the person who doesn't quote an entire sentence or thought, *sigh*.

If you apply for a linkshell, and get accepted, aren't there usually lotting rules and attendance rules, etc posted for members/potential members to see? Shouldn't you educate yourself on how the linkshell is ran, it's history as a LS and of it's leaders? Or do most people just join a linkshell that has a successful history, be it brief or longstanding, just to be in a high profile linkshell? I'm seriously curious, as I've pretty much stuck with the same crew until a few months ago, and although having the best gear is always everyones dream, there's only so much to go around at the end of the day. If I come across some of the nice things, great. If not, idc either way, I've managed to play the game without them.

That being said, these are AV drops after all. Of course some people are going to be upset if they didn't get something -- but hey, you did get to Kill AV, which is pretty cool in itself. If you don't like how something went down, then find others to play with. It's really alot easier to move on than to get bent over shit you aren't going to change by a post on the internet.

[Yugl]

Fallacy of composition, I didn't say it applied to everything - it just seems to be increasingly popular.

I didn't imply that you were applying that philosophy to every situation. However, you used your own everyday experiences in order to prove your statement to be correct. Yet, in order to justify this trait as "common", you have to go beyond a small scale sample. It would be the equivalent of me saying that most people like sliced bread because everyone in my home town likes sliced bread. It could be true that most people like sliced bread, but I cannot prove that simply by using my home town as evidence. Of course that doesn't mean most people don't like sliced bread either. It's just too small of a sample to justify the statement.

[Spider-Dan]

So let me get this straight:

When someone complains about jacked up LS practices, the standard response is "like it or leave it." Yet, the new LS that you join will probably have similar practices, because anytime anyone complains about absurd rules, the response is always "if you don't like it, GTFO."

How about instead of this non-advice, people actually start calling a spade a spade? If people continue to play this "agree or GTFO" game every time complaints are made, LS leadership groups will continue to believe that these practices are perfectly reasonable.

Community opinion is a factor in this game (see: players that have admitted/been caught buying gil vs. players that sold gil, both of which are equally prohibited under ToS). If you honestly believe that it's legit to give gear to some members but sell it to others, then say so, but don't cop out with this "if you don't like it, leave" BS. You're ducking the question.