I'd expect this from someone like Stanislav, but SapereAude...?

[Niki]

If your members need to be asked 5 times to come, there's a very handy feature for shell holder and sack holders; it's the /breaklinkpearl. Using it will remove those pesky members. Seriously, I'm not expecting payment or extra items just to tell people what job to come as. It's incredibly easy to lead most of the events except for a very few.

I was exaggerating, but i think every LS has more and less active member, those that wake up early for camps and those that sleep as usual and go to camps at their normal play time only. I think extra work should be rewarded more. (read extra work, not lead) The OP stated that not only leader got AV stuff for free, also normal member.

[Lordwafik]

Personally the shell I'm in for stuff like this divides out everything equally between our members. We all do the work and in the end we all get paid for it. There is no real "bank" outside of one person holding extra limbus coins and even then we still get our splits from that.

Their system while I don't agree with it obviously works somehow. As I said before hoarding information about PW and not sharing it on a forum which their own members have obviously used time and again for information is pretty selfish.

Entirely agreed. Very selfish thing to do to with-hold information on PW especially since big chunks of info came from here by LSs other than their own. They can claim "We dun wan it 2 b nerfd" all they want but I'm not buying it.

[Emorej]

I was exaggerating, but i think every LS has more and less active member, those that wake up early for camps and those that sleep as usual and go to camps at their normal play time only. I think extra work should be rewarded more. (read extra work, not lead) The OP stated that not only leader got AV stuff for free, also normal member.

Um are you saying that FFXI> RL and people should not get sleep? This was the reason I left my first shell. Stayaing up till 2am going to a FULL TIME JOB at 7 am 5/7 days a week. No. that is just all kinds of wrong.

[Niki]

Um are you saying that FFXI> RL and people should not get sleep? This was the reason I left my first shell. Stayaing up till 2am going to a FULL TIME JOB at 7 am 5/7 days a week. No. that is just all kinds of wrong.

No i'm not saying that, but those that want to spend more time should get more rewarded. Nobody is forced to do anything o.o You should check event times before you join a LS.

[Khalil]

I was exaggerating, but i think every LS has more and less active member, those that wake up early for camps and those that sleep as usual and go to camps at their normal play time only. I think extra work should be rewarded more. (read extra work, not lead) The OP stated that not only leader got AV stuff for free, also normal member.

Extra work should be rewarded but not just because you're leader and you happen to lead events. Extra working like camping Cerb/Khim/Tiamat from start to finish, shit like that should always be rewarded by points and/or gil. My argument was that leaders should not be given more items and/or gil simply they lead; it's their role to lead, therefore should not be charged extra.

[Questionable]

Why shouldn't a leader get items for free while some of his members pay? I answered that in the post above yours but I'll reiterate again. Plain and simple, leaders are chosen for their ability to lead. If they can't lead, not exactly leader-material. Now, apart from leading majority of events, which are all easy to do (I have about 2 years experience, last year in TBC did a lot of events), it doesn't take someone with an IQ of a gifted child to do it. It's actually quite simple to lead most events unless your members are complete retards. Basically, leading entirely depends on your members, if they can follow simple orders (bring so and so job, etc), you shouldn't exactly get free items for doing a basic thing.

Honestly some of the people who respond here is incredibly biased. I don't know what kind of world you live in or what server you play, but from what I've seen in the past 4-5 years in this game is that the majority of people who play are sheep. Utterly stupid little sheep. The people who post here are the minority probably 2% of the FF population that actually has some IQ and knows somewhat about the game mechanics.

Yeah it is fucking easy to lead limbus runs, dynamis, nyzul, salvage, whatever. FOR US maybe it is easy, because we aren't fucking stupid like sheep, but yeah for the most part, the average general FF player, it is incredibly difficult.

Face it, this forum is mostly consisting of high top tier elite players from all servers, the sheep usual go on alla and care about chocobo raising or racing and get happy when a new festival event is coming out. You can't compare us to them, honestly, that is why leaders do more work.

Don't agree with me or believe me, well maybe you're just damn smack lucky on your server or LS. Almost ALL linkshells I have been in or heard/seen, have sheep and things go wrong for the wrong reasons in events.

Examples:

My friend Archain told me 2 separate nyzul runs he joined failed miserably because of sheep. First one was failure due to the BRD singing Minne instead of Minuet at the boss because she was busy being a sheep and could care less, Minne and Minuet look similar because of letter "M" at the beginning. Second run, if it wasn't for him, they wouldn't even come so close to clearing 5 floors as the crap setup was 5 melee 1 COR/WHM(him). During last floor to clear, he got slept by CC's aoe sleep because a fucking idiot NIN named Puffygirl had to voke it, I guess he wants weapons so badly.

When I tell him to come for a run or two with us, we usually clear with 5 on F100 with no issues, this is because everyone actually THINKS plus good leadership on how to deal with the event.

A last example is doing Apollyon SE. My old LS used to clear this no problem with 4 people, THF MNK BRD RDM. Got every single target. Again that is because someone who knew what was going on, lead it. We let 6 people who weren't leads try the run because it's supposedly the easiest. They failed on the second floor.

So I don't know what's your situation, but from what I've seen, there's lots of stupid people and sheep who don't put enough "brain" effort as the rest. Sure they can physically and temporally put as or more effort into the events but honestly, in life, who gets paid the most, people who use their brains, not their muscle. I'm sorry if people who strive on getting their paychecks with their strength rather than brain.

[Questionable]

I was exaggerating, but i think every LS has more and less active member, those that wake up early for camps and those that sleep as usual and go to camps at their normal play time only. I think extra work should be rewarded more. (read extra work, not lead) The OP stated that not only leader got AV stuff for free, also normal member.

Extra work should get rewarded but turning a blind eye to leadership is just ignorant.

Go grab someone from whitegate and tell them to lead a dynamis run, to pull, setup parties, boss stratagies, even something simple as dynamis I don't think you can pull it off with just asking any random player or member to do it. Think about people who actually attend dynamis, they just like to get spoon fed, sit there and take commands, aka sheep. You think half the people who do dynamis knows what's actually going on? lol

[Crisco]

It's a hard concept for all those 'inactive' players to understand. Unfortunately they just dont participate as much as the 100% active members and rightfully shouldn't get as much loot. My last LS had this problem and it was really annoying to hear. "I show up as much as I can yet you won't let me lot...wtf!" Too bad their definition of "as much as I can" turned out to be 1-2 days a week for only a couple hours a time. It's like working a part time job expecting full time paychecks. If you don't give much, don't expect much.

This obviously isn't restricted to just inactive members, I was just using it as an example. I really wanted to talk about people abusing the welfare system, but I couldn't think of a good way to word it without getting flammed to hell. qq

[Emorej]

So let me be clear. These "sheep" should not get anything correct? I understand the whole charlie foxtrott thing, but what? tell them to they fail ffxi and go home and qq to their mog? Or just deny them "engame" content becasue "sheep" dont deserve to play ffxi? I fully understand not wanting to deal with lolplayers, but come on, let them get some shiny bobble too.

[Zosi]

Extra work should be rewarded but not just because you're leader and you happen to lead events. Extra working like camping Cerb/Khim/Tiamat from start to finish, shit like that should always be rewarded by points and/or gil. My argument was that leaders should not be given more items and/or gil simply they lead; it's their role to lead, therefore should not be charged extra.

If every single one of your leaders isn't putting in "extra effort" that is above and beyond the duties expected of a normal member, they're shitty leaders and should be replaced or removed.

As a side question, are you currently or have you ever been a sack in a HNMLS? The way you trivialize everything related to leadership, it makes me wonder whether you've ever actually had that responsibility yourself.

[Questionable]

If every single one of your leaders isn't putting in "extra effort" that is above and beyond the duties expected of a normal member, they're shitty leaders and should be replaced or removed.

As a side question, are you currently or have you ever been a sack in a HNMLS? The way you trivialize everything related to leadership, it makes me wonder whether you've ever actually had that responsibility yourself.

I think alot of people don't see how much work is involved with planning a simple event and then gets messed up because a member doesn't pay attention.

[Questionable]

So let me be clear. These "sheep" should not get anything correct? I understand the whole charlie foxtrott thing, but what? tell them to they fail ffxi and go home and qq to their mog? Or just deny them "engame" content becasue "sheep" dont deserve to play ffxi? I fully understand not wanting to deal with lolplayers, but come on, let them get some shiny bobble too.

What, why always black and white? Do those people have to get the same amount as the leaders? They can get stuff but at a reduced rate... people here seems to be saying that even sheep should get the same distribution as leaders or more advanced members. WTF...

[Questionable]

Seriously though, a decade ago I thought why do managers or higher level employees get more pay and wonder how come entry level get paid so much less. It's not until you actually do their job you fully understand how much is involved weather you think it's actually easy or not.

Sure there are some things that don't seem proportional, do I think lawyers/doctors/dentists should get the amount they get? Not as much, but still more than us. But if you look at things from an education/experience perspective, it more or less fits.

All in CAD$ - Using mostly business occupations

$/hour

-Sales Clerk/Fast Food cashier - 8.00-10.00 (Little or no high school needed, minimum time in school, 8 years Gr.1-8)
-Entry level Data Entry/Clerical - 10.00-13.00 (Some high school needed, 10-13 years in school)
-Entry level technologist/assistant/programmer 14.00-19.00 (High school needed, with some post-secondary education, 14-17 years in school)
-IT Networking, Software Engineer, mid level - 21.00-33.00 (High school, post-secondary required, may require additional certificates, masters, 17-20 years in school)
-Management in technology - 29.00-41.00 (19-22 years needed, additional experience required)
-VP of area - 37.00-53.00 (MBA required, possibly MA, 22-25 years)
-Dental Surgeon - 85.00-130.00++ (Experience required, complicated knowledge, 20-22 years)
-Doctor M.D. - 110.00-250.00++ (Residency, experience, complicated knowledge, 25-30 years)

You can't say a person who's doing Clerical work should get the same as a mid-level manager in a company. I don't care if the clerical work employee does overtime or works 80 hours a week busting his or her ass off. It's not the same in terms of intelligence.

[Kaibelf]

Kaibelf, sorry if I wasn't clear.
What I meant to portray was I would always listen to all pearl's complaints/gripes/concerns and try my best to find them a solution/answer other than the "that's just the way it is, deal with it" answer, unless it came to that point, which we all know can happen when people just can't accept an answer and just keep nagging.

Please try to understand what I'm trying to portray, and being a Leader is very easy if you are always consistent and even-handed with all dealings, well as long as all your other co-leaders are always on the same page.

Whew! Gotcha! Sorry I jumped the gun then. And believe me, (and I'm sure you know), even the most even-handed and consistent leaders are hated for not having access to the Kraken Wand +1. You know, the one that grants all drops, endless points, and free relics for all upon the defeat of any mob... and does it for 2-8 members at a swing!

Double penetration gay porn.

They were filming that? Damn you, hidden webcams!

[Crisco]

In before the 1,000,000 sheep march demanding equal lotting rights.

[Khalil]

If every single one of your leaders isn't putting in "extra effort" that is above and beyond the duties expected of a normal member, they're shitty leaders and should be replaced or removed.

As a side question, are you currently or have you ever been a sack in a HNMLS? The way you trivialize everything related to leadership, it makes me wonder whether you've ever actually had that responsibility yourself.

I am currently a sack holder in a HNMLS on Ramuh. As much as I would like extra compensation for just doing my job, it's not exactly fair.

People make leadership seem as if it's an incredible feature to have and hard to attain. It's not really, in this game anyways.

[Khalil]

Giving LS schedule is a no-no?! Wow, it's a given BEFORE you apply.

[Emorej]

Seriously though, a decade ago I thought why do managers or higher level employees get more pay and wonder how come entry level get paid so much less. It's not until you actually do their job you fully understand how much is involved weather you think it's actually easy or not.

Sure there are some things that don't seem proportional, do I think lawyers/doctors/dentists should get the amount they get? Not as much, but still more than us. But if you look at things from an education/experience perspective, it more or less fits.

All in CAD$ - Using mostly business occupations

$/hour

-Sales Clerk/Fast Food cashier - 8.00-10.00 (Little or no high school needed, minimum time in school, 8 years Gr.1-8)
-Entry level Data Entry/Clerical - 10.00-13.00 (Some high school needed, 10-13 years in school)
-Entry level technologist/assistant/programmer 14.00-19.00 (High school needed, with some post-secondary education, 14-17 years in school)
-IT Networking, Software Engineer, mid level - 21.00-33.00 (High school, post-secondary required, may require additional certificates, masters, 17-20 years in school)
-Management in technology - 29.00-41.00 (19-22 years needed, additional experience required)
-VP of area - 37.00-53.00 (MBA required, possibly MA, 22-25 years)
-Dental Surgeon - 85.00-130.00++ (Experience required, complicated knowledge, 20-22 years)
-Doctor M.D. - 110.00-250.00++ (Residency, experience, complicated knowledge, 25-30 years)

You can't say a person who's doing Clerical work should get the same as a mid-level manager in a company. I don't care if the clerical work employee does overtime or works 80 hours a week busting his or her ass off. It's not the same in terms of intelligence.

point taken. but in RL and as of late people with degrees are doing entry lvl work, being paid way below what they should. Shoot take a look. It takes a BS just to answer phones now a ways. And managers coudl have the job for being there for a long time and still not have a lick or education, or common inteligence, but jus appointed to the position, you know, like in the government. /ok.end.job.rant Title=/=qualifications

[Shinsei]

Niki, you would be surprised at the amount of linkshells that want you to sign up and apply before they will even GIVE you their LS schedule. Like it's some holy grail or something. it's like "i work 4-10 pm est, NA primetime, if I can't come to your events i am not going to bother signing up for your site."

Japanese shells, on the other hand, are very willing to give you information if you show the slightest bit of nicety. Who knew.

That's probably a server thing. At least over here most shells I know would be generous enough to let people know what their schedule event times are before even giving them a trial. Like if someone stated they work from 8am-5pm and the Linkshell they are applying to have their events at 1:00pm, they'd probably let them know their play times doesn't go well with the linskhells scheduled events.

[Saithorx]

You can't say a person who's doing Clerical work should get the same as a mid-level manager in a company. I don't care if the clerical work employee does overtime or works 80 hours a week busting his or her ass off. It's not the same in terms of intelligence.

I thought this way too, but then I learned how much Athletes make.