I wrote a lolGuide (to Nyzul)

[mackerel]

Poof has plenty of enemies on Odin, in big shells and small. Every bad thing reported about this "person" on Fairy still applies.

Is it possible to /blist a person on BG forums?

[Gaea]

More people on Odin, so you don't stand out as much. Plus we had Feiwong and a few other popular idiots to deal with already. Any potential shenanigans would probably go unnoticed, unless it happens at Kings, or you screwed with the bigger shells.

As far as doing things with bigger shells, mostly just Ragtag (JP), and BBQ (NA/EU/JP). I've done things with Res before I quit because Hex is just plain mean to people. I left really quietly though. He didn't take it well and got himself suspended for a couple of days for harassing me about leaving. Oh, someone from ML suggested I join that group when it was first starting out and I did until I got kicked for having a 3% attendance rate to HNMs. I tried to tell them I don't like to camp HNMs. Other than that, no problems with anyone in the LS and I've done Nyzul Isle with them as recent as the week before last. I can't remember Redwing's shell's name but back when I was learning salvage and joining other groups, I went with them when they needed an extra person as well as with Cosmowind's group. God I still remember the horror of getting outlotted on kabuto. Luckily, I got another one to drop ( a couple of months later LOL). Atomi's group PAPARAZZILS, I've done ZNMs with. That's probably one of the most serious ZNM groups on Odin, too. I haven't done anything recently though and they were starting to have some attendance issues. There doesn't seem to be too much demand for TH4s and peopel got what they wanted from the lower tiers. PW is ... well its PW. So, yeah, interest started dying.

Other than Hex, nobody really has seem to have had a first hand problem with me. Some people don't like that I transferred, but oh well.

I would have considered going back to Fairy if Toth, Thunderblaze, and Kinesis left. Things would be so much quiet then. I have too many friends here now, though, to consider that as an option. Especially after so many people have even moved here with me.

If anything, I'd consider jumping servers again if Toth, Thunderblaze, or Kinesis came here. If they were on your server, you'd consider leaving too. It's THAT bad.

[mackerel]

If anything, I'd consider jumping servers again if Toth, Thunderblaze, or Kinesis came here. If they were on your server, you'd consider leaving too. It's THAT bad.

Toth, Thunderblaze, or Kinesis please consider this an invitation to transfer to Odin. You can't be worse than Poof.

[Ashira]

All the names you're dropping on Odin aren't exactly like, well-looked to people. Cosmowinds led Ragtag for ages and ages, and they were a shell that pretty much lived up to their name.. sometimes they did really well, but they were never very consistent. Then he bailed on Ragtag, at least HNM camp wise, to join lolClan to get a Hauteclaire. Atomi is CLAN... 'nuf said. Note earlier reference to same shell. Nanaha that you mentioned before, in another post as being in a "popular JP shell" is in Luna, the shell that I believe most of Lightning Brigade joined when they first server xferred here (Luna is not native to Odin), but I certainly don't see a lot of them hanging out with them now, and for good reason. They're more inconsistent than Ragtag as far as killing ability and skill, and have a suspiciously high claim rate with level 5 WAR accounts who sign in and out after windows, etc.

You're doing an awful lot of name-dropping though, and most of these people don't have the faintest clue who you're talking about. ;P

Too bad on the ZNMs though, T4s are worth the farming, especially Sarameya. /shrug

[Gaea]

Other than Atomi's ZNM, I wasn't in their shells Ashira, I'm just saying they've done Nyzul isle with me. Nanaha got her Denali Jacket in our group. Kensi was the one that got kabuto when I did salvage with cosmo. I think he's a pretty nice person but I don't know much of the backstory. He seems to play off and on.

I've done Salvage and Nyzul with people from Ragtag and I think they are a fun bunch of people. I don't know anything about Luna's claim rate on HNMs or their event schedule.

[payu]

stop ragging on gaea shes awesome!
and yer im quitterered for the time being;ooo

[Gaea]

come back Odin needs more tarus

if you come back we can make a sky LS and farm waters. Odin needs more sky LSes too.

[Biggz]

Your forum title could not be any more perfect.

[Tempyst]

wait wait wait

drg/nin

are you fucking serious

drg/rdm or drg/sam, why the fuck would you ever sub nin to drg in nyzul EVER

[Keria]

wish I had that DRG "I want to believe" pic to hand... could shop in some utsusemi

[Gaea]

Your forum title could not be any more perfect.

Yes it could. I'm advocating for Wincest Survivor.

wait wait wait

drg/nin

are you fucking serious

drg/rdm or drg/sam, why the fuck would you ever sub nin to drg in nyzul EVER

For a newer group yeah, I am. The mobs are too weak to worry about DoT, but damage mitigation is important for newer groups. So is the ability to sneak and invisible. /RDM shouldn't be relied on nor should you bring yet another person with MP unless you'll also bring his own MP drinks. Sure there's Red Mages can pull off keeping people Refreshed, Hasted, and cured but there's a lot of running around and newer parties are still trying to figure stuff out.

/NIN gets sneak and invisible and ninjutsu doesn't aggro magic. That's another reason. Getting newer groups to bring ALOT of extra medicines like oils and powders can really be a stretch. The most common thing I hear regarding this issue when people WILL opt to bring oils and powders is they'll either run out mid-run or they'll try to get mages to sneak and invisible them to "conserve meds". Ninjutsu stacks to 99, I never see people run out of this stuff and we always do 3 to 4 runs in a session (We go twice a week 3 tags wednesday 4 tags sunday)

I do plan to brush up on things like /SAM, but these people shouldn't be MP sponges. Also, jobs that sub something other than nin and go hog wild on certain floor leaders or 20th floor bosses tend to get themselves killed. Fanatics Drink is a great solution to that when handling bosses, and I will touch up on things like that when I get the time.

Even then, a job that cant cast sneak and invisible with spells or tonko needs to 13-24 oils and 13-14 powders on them and that can be difficult for people to invest. I always say 13+ because I insist they don't do stupid things like "not buy them" because they don't want to "start another stack".

Those are things I'll go over but it wasn't important enough to mention to get people off the ground floor.

Telling people hey take DRG/SAM its win and then the guy goes in there, sponges MP, and then dies to a Roorooroon's Triple Attack + Bombs, or something stupid like Flare from a Poroggo isn't what I'm trying to accomplish.

[Zhais]

See, here's what I have been trying to point out. You automatically assume that 'newer groups' are idiots. You assume no member in the group has any prior experience in anything and are just floundering around nyzul hoping to find an ebon panel marked "Win Button".

The only hard part about nyzul is group communication and familiarity with the objectives. Telling people that "Omg if you bring a bard you will have a 33 to 45% chance of failing ARE YOU GONNA TAKE THAT MADE UP CHANCE?" is not the way to go.

ya know what, nvm. It's like talking to a brick wall. You think you are right and no amount of explaining, arguing, or beating common sense into you will change a thing. Out of all this, the biggest thing I just plain don't get is why you are posting a guide 'Intended for new groups with 0, nada, zilch, experience' (but happen to possibly be a pld with full ares for DD?) on an end-game based forum where everyone is essentially really experienced and usually the forerunners in these events.

Go to 'zam, they might actually be appreciative of it. Or they'll laugh you out of the room as well.

[Tempyst]

Nevermind that any half decent geared drg/rdm can spit out 7 mp healing breaths for 300+ HP constantly, with refresh sanction making it a complete wash as far as keeping MP up, as long as you have half a pulse you can keep your wyvern alive and dishing out free HP nonstop

Your guide is fucking dumb and your ideas are worse

[Obev]

Did Nyzul six times weekly for six months. Was Bard most runs. Only failed when we got shit like "Kill all enemies. White Magic Restricted. Oh and all the enemies are Flans and Dahaks." As we'd gotten plenty of 4/5 and 5/5 sets of Nyzul armour by the time I uninstalled, I'd say that your Bard hatred is entirely unjustified.

Either that, or I'm a fucking awesome Bard.

[Alibeemac]

Been running Nyzul Isle for 8 months now with WHM BRD WAR DRK SAM THF. Haven't lost a run in months, (vaguely remember some BS with gears and Cassie). Never lost a Floor 100 Boss fight even tho our WHM (me) was the disc holder and warped out at 50% and we tend to kill the Bosses anywhere been 30sec to 2mins (stupid Cerb Stoneskin). 58 armor drops off Bosses. But I guess we are doing it all wrong

Oh and I also get constantly asked by LS and non LS people if we have a free spot in our run that they can join. This happens to every group who has been at it a long time and knows how to run it. Don't think you are special cause you aren't.

[Midnightjade]

Been running Nyzul Isle for 8 months now with WHM BRD WAR DRK SAM THF. Haven't lost a run in months, (vaguely remember some BS with gears and Cassie). Never lost a Floor 100 Boss fight even tho our WHM (me) was the disc holder and warped out at 50% and we tend to kill the Bosses anywhere been 30sec to 2mins (stupid Cerb Stoneskin). 58 armor drops off Bosses. But I guess we are doing it all wrong

Same here - Nyzul 6-7 runs a week for months, THF BLU NIN SAM BRD RDM, more than 50 armor drops and god knows how many weapons. Roaming party approach, target is identified by a party member and party converges on it. BRD sings buffs as part of the fluid party dynamics - it's just a matter of understanding the radius of a circle, where party members are, and where they're going to be. Also Elegy/Finale/Lullaby, healing/Erase/-na to back up the RDM.

That's how it works, and it works well.

[Ashira]

Did Nyzul six times weekly for six months. Was Bard most runs. Only failed when we got shit like "Kill all enemies. White Magic Restricted. Oh and all the enemies are Flans and Dahaks." As we'd gotten plenty of 4/5 and 5/5 sets of Nyzul armour by the time I uninstalled, I'd say that your Bard hatred is entirely unjustified.

Either that, or I'm a fucking awesome Bard.

We got nine floors on one tag the other night, Obev. Almost ten except the lamps were spread out a bit far and we didn't get any randomly correct on the first try, and zoning up to who knows what with only a minute left is risky.

And I was level 74 BRD too, zomgimp.

:D

[Shadowrunner]

I'll admit, I bit to the comments he made directly in the thread and made my comments based on that.

So I took the silly comments labeling people as chimps and my comments of 'nothing' and read a part of the guide.

And then I saw this big title that said "What, no Bard?". And then, I thought to myself ... oh I've got to read this. First comment, Absolutely, makes the guide as a whole a fail. Absolutely implies it is a must, a need. A guide is just that, a guide. It should not label things as a necessity unless it is absolute. So I see (and have personally attested to) bards being successful. At this point, the guide as a whole is now disappointing. Then I found the numbers

[Shadowrunner]

So I read the guide, since my comments apparantly cannot mean anything unless I've read it.

You've labeled an ENTIRE SECTION to "why not bard". Every single comment I've made stands. And you made a relation to Tortoise Song? Seriously?

Where did you get this 33.3% and 42.5%? What possible statistical data can prove that BARD is the reason you failed a nyzul run, and what they specifically did? Didn't kill fast enough? Sounds like some shitty ass DD to me. I mean. Wow. Tortoise Song?

Minstrel's Ring is useful. I have 5 other members that can attest that just last night, we ran 3 runs, floors 55-70, and you can bet your sweet ass possum that the 3 floors we encountered about 70% (hah! made up numbers too) was Birds, Undead, and Arcana. I mean it was insane. And yes, we did get a kill-all on an undead floor. Along with having to kill Serket, which was fun.

P.S. - Scholar is absoutley wonderful in Nyzul too. You might want to mention that.

I think the main reason that you are getting so much criticism on the Bard thing is pretty simple. You labeled an entire section to why not to bring a bard.

The worst part about this, is you then go further to state that a winning combination involves a bard.

You destroy your entire guide by labeling a major fault, and then proving that said major fault is successful.

You say things such as "self-explanitory". No. Guides do not do this. They explain a perferred method and the logic behind it, at least you followed up by saying what, but you didn't explain the reasoning behind. Self-explanitory means you should already know before going, if you already know, what the hell is the point of reading a guide? If you find out that you're going to get tons of colibri, people don't know this.

Floors in nyzul can be absolutely huge. In your Enemy Leader section, you say that the boss is rarely far from the start. I'd honestly say it's been about 50/50, with the worst of it (far pull) happening once again, just last night. Thank god it was a flayer. A nice thing you might like to mention is that NM's shouldn't give up when chasing you (that, or I got lucky with how far I pulled it). You can also label that Enemy Leader implies it will ALWAYS BE A TOAU MOB. It's "self explanitory", but it's nice to mention for anyone new.

Same comment with specific enemies. It will always be a ToAU mob. You'll never get an enemies floor with the target being crawlers, or bees.

On the lamps floor, give a reference to how long they have. It is absoutely safe to use the in-game clock, because you have at least a full 5 seconds (if not more) to look at the clock, and hit the activation before the other lamps go cold. You have tons of time, shit happens, etc.

Comments like these:

"Personally, I just prefer to kill them all. It helps us burn up some of the extra time we have and get extra tokens. "

hurt your guide. Killing extra mobs outside of the objective does help burn up time, but it most certainly doesn't net you extra tokens (unless, it very well could be that I have this wrong, damn, I'll have to look it up.) In fact, it stops you from doing more floors, which is what earns you extra tokens. Again, I'll need to verify this, so I guess this last part is opinionated and unknown to me. But I have a feeling the amount of tokens you get is pretty much restricted to how many floors you clear, not how many mobs are dead.

(I went back and decided I would read from the same area where you posted the guide to find my answer, Wikia states that Nyzul's tokens are determined by floor clearing. Killing the mobs nets you a time-sink. Most people are trying to avoid this.)

[Shadowrunner]

I guess you do label SCH in there once or twice, I'll retract that silly comment.