Rate your relic weapon

[tonystigma]

Tekki said excal is a 10.. Stan said Ecal is very good.. Wopa said excal owns.. I dont think there is much downside to the weapon. If you're a good tank already burtgang is hmmm?

Another great tool for tanking? In fact, since the Enmity + 10, Physical Damage Taken -10%, and the Reduces Enmity decrease when taking physical damage aren't under Aftermath, you could offhand the sword and still use your excal.

[MillionDollarMan]

Another great tool for tanking? In fact, since the Enmity + 10, Physical Damage Taken -10%, and the Reduces Enmity decrease when taking physical damage aren't under Aftermath, you could offhand the sword and still use your excal.

I figured most people would have aegis.

[Neosutra]

Yep I have aegis and would use it off hand, so I have to chose =/

But so far the actual data Ive seen for excal makes it less than impressive when compared to burtgang. I just want to be proven wrong with more than SSs of "hey look it proc'd the added effect 3 times in a row it owns!"

[Lyramion]

Again:

Rellic and Mystics wielded OFFhand lose all special abilities and bonuses. only Damage and Delay will stay making it into a "blank" weapon

[Neosutra]

Again:

Rellic and Mystics wielded OFFhand lose all special abilities and bonuses. only Damage and Delay will stay making it into a "blank" weapon

No, they lose their additional effect, triple proc, and WS bonus. The base stats (such as 20 attack on relic, or -10% damage on burtgang) are constant.

Learn2read.

[Lyramion]

No, they lose their additional effect, triple proc, and WS bonus. The base stats (such as 20 attack on relic, or -10% damage on burtgang) are constant.

Learn2read.

Just confirmed with the Relic THF in my Party. The +20 ATk is COMPLETELY gone as soon as you put it into your offhand.


Learn2knowyourshitbeforecallingpeopleout

[MillionDollarMan]

Yep I have aegis and would use it off hand, so I have to chose =/

But so far the actual data Ive seen for excal makes it less than impressive when compared to burtgang. I just want to be proven wrong with more than SSs of "hey look it proc'd the added effect 3 times in a row it owns!"

Tekki had some crazy screenshots before with add effect going off alot. When people with multiple relics say its great.. I wouldn't doubt it anymore.

[hopefulki]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58...la/mandatk.png

proof.

[Neosutra]

Just confirmed with the Relic THF in my Party. The +20 ATk is COMPLETELY gone as soon as you put it into your offhand.


Learn2knowyourshitbeforecallingpeopleout

OK!

But I have to believe the attack being gone is a mistake Q.Q. The translation stated that the additional effects would be null and void, but I guess I will try it out on Burtgang in about 7 months.

Thankyou Lyramion and sorry for the misplaced sarcasm.

[Ruiner]

Where's that pic of the Stanislav parse at JoL? That's honestly the best argument for Excal I've seen to date.

Also, the loss of all relic bonuses in offhand is a total and complete bummer. Burtgang/Excalibur would've been kinda cool with all the stats intact.

[Valisk]

Where's that pic of the Stanislav parse at JoL? That's honestly the best argument for Excal I've seen to date.

Also, the loss of all relic bonuses in offhand is a total and complete bummer. Burtgang/Excalibur would've been kinda cool with all the stats intact.

Well we already knew relics couldn't triple proc off hand so Excal was never suggested to go off hand. People might have made a case for Excal/Burtgang, but now that we know the stats arent intact, that's out the window

[Ruiner]

Well we already knew relics couldn't triple proc off hand so Excal was never suggested to go off hand. People might have made a case for Excal/Burtgang, but now that we know the stats arent intact, that's out the window

I know, I don't mean the recent loss, I just mean loss in general. As in, loss from switching from main to sub, not we had this before and now we don't.

[Valisk]

Ah, gotcha.

[underscore]

Speaking as a Bravura user, but not an owner...it's about an 7.5/10, I'd say. While it doesn't bring anything "new" to the table for Warrior, or work in synergy with the job abilities like DRK/THF/RNG weapons do, it is an absolute monster of a weapon. It sounds kind of "no shit", but it IS the best GAX out there, with no real competition unlike some others. The relic WAR's in my LS have basically nicknamed it "Blender-o-death" since in merit PT's it's not uncommon for them to wind up at 50%+ TP after the RR animation finally finishes.

It loses about 1-1.5 points because of the base delay though. You're forced to realistically use either Carbonara or Askar Korazin; and while Korazin isn't bad, it's no Adaman Hauberk. You could use adaberk, but then you're forced to use Carbonara or Red Curry, so yeah. Otherwise though, the weapon is utterly amazing.

Speaking as an owner, this review of Bravura is pretty spot on. Honestly though the delay isn't that big of a deal, I've permanently switched to carbonara/arrabiata for everything but colibri and haven't found it too draining.

While I'm not a Bravura owner, I can shed some light on why it's not as commonly upgraded. While it is the best damage-dealing weapon a Warrior can use, it doesn't really bring as much to the table as Amano or Apoc, two weapons which fit the same bill as Bravura by being the best weapon for their job, but also have much more valuable WSs that change the way the job is played in some aspects considerably.

How is Amano better for sam than Bravura is for war? I agree with Apoc changing DRK dynamics but I can't really see what Amano does for sam other than more dmg.

[kisada]

yeah attack bonus gone as soon as you off-hand it. sad for all relic katana users.

[Contract]

How is Amano better for sam than Bravura is for war? I agree with Apoc changing DRK dynamics but I can't really see what Amano does for sam other than more dmg.

I'd have to completely agree with this, Amano didn't change much about the way I played Samurai other than making me do alot more damage at certain events and especially in exp.

I honestly wish I had gotten a Bravura instead of Amano, mainly because WAR is a better job for zerging and the additional effect and aftermath of Metatron are so much better than the useless Store TP+7.

[Ruiner]

I'd have to completely agree with this, Amano didn't change much about the way I played Samurai other than making me do alot more damage at certain events and especially in exp.

I honestly wish I had gotten a Bravura instead of Amano, mainly because WAR is a better job for zerging and the additional effect and aftermath of Metatron are so much better than the useless Store TP+7.

Maybe I was off-base with the Amano comment, but I've typically seen Amano users praise Kaiten more than Bravura users praise Metatron Torment. Perhaps it's just because there are more relic Amanos than Bravuras.

While I'm on the subject, though, how do you like Metatron, Underscore? How is the damage compared to Steel Cyclone?

[algrensan]

I honestly wish I had gotten a Bravura instead of Amano, mainly because WAR is a better job for zerging and the additional effect and aftermath of Metatron are so much better than the useless Store TP+7.

i wouldn't say that store tp+7 is completely useless. like i said on the first page, i use kaiten's store tp effect as a part of my 6-hit setup (usukane haramaki, brutal earring, rajas ring, usukane sune-ate, 0 store tp merits). however, now that i've obtained askar korazin and use that in my ws setup, i added 1 store tp merit to make up for it. so depending on your setup, you're free to use 4-5 merits on something else that may fit your playing style.

[Naramaska]

Maybe I was off-base with the Amano comment, but I've typically seen Amano users praise Kaiten more than Bravura users praise Metatron Torment. Perhaps it's just because there are more relic Amanos than Bravuras.

While I'm on the subject, though, how do you like Metatron, Underscore? How is the damage compared to Steel Cyclone?

For just Steel Cyclone, MT is equal to about a ~200-225% SC. After that, the modifier bonuses on SC start to pull it ahead. As for MT vs. RR though...


From a couple of parses I have lying around:

Note: Slight and Muffins both have Bravura, but their gear is not identical, nor are party setups, and their gear changed between each PT. Compare their WS damage to themselves only and not each other. All merit PT's were at MMJSP south camp with plenty of Skoffins pulled to maintain chain.

2x BRD (Minuet x2 + March x2)

Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Muffins                    105445    41.25 %     107/1    99.07 %    343/1721   985.47
 - Metatron Torment         85973    81.53 %      88/1    98.88 %    343/1641   976.97
 - Raging Rush              19472    18.47 %      19/0   100.00 %    500/1721  1024.84
Naramaska                   53902    25.63 %      79/0   100.00 %    183/1150   682.30
 - Blade: Jin               53902   100.00 %      79/0   100.00 %    183/1150   682.30
Slight                      97255    42.01 %      90/2    97.83 %    308/2169  1080.61
 - Metatron Torment         25659    26.38 %      23/2    92.00 %    345/2169  1115.61
 - Raging Rush              71596    73.62 %      67/0   100.00 %    308/1766  1068.60

2x BRD (Minuet x2 + March x2) 152 mobs.

Muffins                     92201    39.03 %      97/2    97.98 %    213/2076   950.53
 - Metatron Torment         35254    38.24 %      37/2    94.87 %    531/2076   952.81
 - Raging Rush              55855    60.58 %      59/0   100.00 %    213/1539   946.69
 - Steel Cyclone             1092     1.18 %       1/0   100.00 %   1092/1092  1092.00
Naramaska                   36499    23.59 %      52/0   100.00 %    100/1168   701.90
 - Blade: Jin               34533    94.61 %      49/0   100.00 %    100/1168   704.76
 - Blade: Ten                1966     5.39 %       3/0   100.00 %     424/837   655.33
Slight                     100728    40.27 %      94/1    98.95 %    429/2241  1071.57
 - Metatron Torment         37192    36.92 %      37/1    97.37 %    521/1475  1005.19
 - Raging Rush              63536    63.08 %      57/0   100.00 %    429/2241  1114.67

Einherjar Tier III - KB boss. SC was MS'd for burst damage at start. No idea of buffs.

Muffins                     16476    43.95 %      17/0   100.00 %    394/1982   969.18
 - Metatron Torment          4125    25.04 %       5/0   100.00 %    394/1084   825.00
 - Raging Rush              10369    62.93 %      11/0   100.00 %    470/1299   942.64
 - Steel Cyclone             1982    12.03 %       1/0   100.00 %   1982/1982  1982.00

[Antithesis]

Hey wopa I got a question for you. How well does Mandau do when using it on your Brd (lol.)? And would you recommend doing a TP set? Im working on doing one right now consisting on things like Goliard body and dusk feet and gloves.