Rate your relic weapon

[Neosutra]

I'd say 6/10 for the Mjollnir.

I love my weapon. I love everything about it. Now with Mystic Boon out, I never ever ever run out of MP while meeling. 1- for the shitty fucking delay. -3 from the situation below:

• Izzy
  
  • 75 WHM BLM SMN NIN
• Random Melee
  
  • 75 WHM DRK BLU

Let's assume that Mr. Random Melee has shit gear. Let's assume I've outparsed Random Melee in every god damn merit party ever. Let's assume that every time I'm killing something together with Random Melee, I always have hate.

Why, in the name of Jesus fucking CHRIST do you ask ME to come as "non-melee WHM" and ass the shitty fucking DRK to come as DRK to events? Why can I not come on my WHM that clearly outdamages the other guy's MNK and make that fucker come WHM to heal ME?!

Seriously, that is the ONLY thing I hate the most about my relic weapon. This happens all the time, and it makes me want to fucking punch whomever is making job lists/alliances in the face as hard as I can.

I laughed way too hard Q.Q

[Arthars]

Mandau 9/10 (i dont have it but my irl friend play with me everyday and i kinda know its mechanics lol)
1. average 1400-1700 WS damage in meripo is too hot....this is when gears in salvage die in 10 seconds SCing with metsu or catastrophe. roughly 1400-2800(yes i seen 28xx a few times O_O) damage on triple gears.
2. good geared THF can match or even outparse HQ ridill adaberk wars in meripo
3. theres an X knife that boost ur SA TA and WS even more -_-;
4. WS is prolly the best amongst all relics in any situation
5. poison is potent but i wouldnt comment if this is good or not.....
6. fully utilise TA WS and SA WS if you have a ridill for fast TP
7. setback: like kikoku, this is not that fantastic for average THF....please please please get all round good haste, acc, SA, TA and WS gear before you make a mandau....theres too many sucky thf on ifrit with mandau already and it makes me cry whenever i compare them to my irl friend.........same mandau......different world........
8. -1 rating because it makes my friend dont use thf knife that much anymore for my belief in main-handing thf knife for full TH effect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Izzy]

I laughed way too hard Q.Q

Why Q_Q

[Neosutra]

Why Q_Q

Because I agree with you and would probably throw profanity filled trashcans if I was in same situations. But mostly because I know the melees you are talking about.

[Arthars]

nice signature neo -_-;

[Lyramion]

2-2.5x proc doesn't proc on ws, and the proc rate is the same across all weapons i believe.

There are 3 different multiprocs depending on your weapon delay:

- Quick delay weapons have 3x proc like Kikoku and Mandau
- Medium delay weapons have 2.5x proc like Mjolnir
- High delay weapons which are basically all 2hs are 2x proc

[Raen Ryong]

6. fully utilise TA WS and SA WS if you have a ridill for fast TP

Ridill's gonna give you slower TP than another Dagger in most situations, unless we're talking farming low end mobs which isn't really significant :X

[Slott]

Ridill's gonna give you slower TP than another Dagger in most situations, unless we're talking farming low end mobs which isn't really significant :X

uh no? Unless you're vs an HNM, ridill is going to give you tp faster.

[Diomer]

Aegis: 7/10.

Because the 70% of the time it blocks I love it and the 30% it doesnt I want to choke baby seals into the void of non existance.

But ya, I am a pld all the way so Aegis is great, but in melee DoT reduction is is only fractionally better than Keonig. That combined with other -magic damage equipment makes it less "HOLY SHIT" than people make it out. This can be said for any weapon, as all the relics are marginally better than their next best.

A good pld doesnt need aegis, but a good pld can do amazing things with it.

I dont regret doing aegis for a second, but there are times I would like to have had a bit more fun with one of the weapons.

I'd agree with this for the most part except I'd rate it an 8.5/10 for the following reasons; Aegis is alot more forgiving for sloppy play (I.E. Missed stuns) and that can be invaluable when your LS is having an off day (Maybe even more-so for me as I like to solo tank alot.) Similarly to BRD, it also takes away the need for those resistance sets (at least imo) that clog up inventory space.

[Drzaus]

Amano is a 7/10

-1 for ruining 6 hit + the aftermath being useless in regaining it w/o adding more store tp

http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=19213

Quite an easy slot to give up imo

Sure, an item that came out a few months ago when I've had a relic for years right?

On the other hand, I was completely wrong about this point. It has been so long I had forgotten how much store tp was needed with a 450 delay. You do keep 6 hit as long as the kaiten after effect is on, the problem is simple tho: what happens when kaiten sucks, or you need to use another ws for a different reason? You're out of luck. It doesn't matter to me now at all since my gear has been long since updated, but at the time it was a problem. Relying on your after effect to maintain your build is horrible, you need +5 stp extra if you have the standard +46, as +51 is what kaiten needs... aka +2 does shit anyway. Anyhoo, I change this -1 to the ws animation thing!

I am having a problem remembering what gear was used to keep a 6hit with a standard 450 delay gkt: rajas ring +5, brutal +1... 5 missing? what did people use before usukane pieces/askar? Help me out here >.> I'm thinking hachiman?... but i hated that shit and thought I got the +5 store tp elsewhere.

2-2.5x proc doesn't proc on ws, and the proc rate is the same across all weapons i believe.

There are 3 different multiprocs depending on your weapon delay:

- Quick delay weapons have 3x proc like Kikoku and Mandau
- Medium delay weapons have 2.5x proc like Mjolnir
- High delay weapons which are basically all 2hs are 2x proc

Never mind the fact I was talking about Amano only for that specific dmg proc: your list might seem logical, but it doesn't follow what countless people have seen in game, and I've never seen that list anywhere before. I know most 1h weapons are 2.5-3x proc but not all 2h are a flat 2x proc, amano specifically.

As for thinking it could proc on a da/triple: I've never noticed any freak damage that I can recall... key word = recall. My memory is horrible... but I don't have any SS of anything I would consider powerful enough to be a dmg proc on a DA. Maybe I'm just unlucky.

You know what we need? A thread detailing how SE could buff relics in subtle ways that would make them the best without any overly aggressive changes, barring mage weapons and such.

[Clave]

Merits, Brutal, Usukane feet, Rajas, and Askar(or usu body) are enough to keep a 6-hit full time with Amano without Kaiten's Store TP effect, all of which are great pieces too unlike lolhachiman.

[Appie]

Spharai: 7/10. Really adore this weapon and glad I spent the work to get it. Never tire of it and never take it off. If FH was better or the base damage a bit higher, I'd never leave home.


Spharai I rank at 7/10. Gold knuckles rock! It does all I expected and more. The attack and counter enhances what mnks need, and the higher base damage is noticeable. Triple proc is always nice when it happens especially on crits. If it had higher base damage (+27) or much shorter delay of if Final Heaven could replace other mnk WS in many endgame situations, I could easily give it a 10/10 despite the other shortcomings.

The key drawbacks in my mind are 1) Final Heaven is bad. Its basically a wasted WS and more than one other Spharai owner has said to me he basically has no use for it. Ever. The damage is so terribly low that unless the aftermath is excellent it would not get used. Sadly the aftermath is poor. 2) In my mind relics should in some way bypass the 'normal' mechanics of the game. Example, Spharai should be all weapon types (pierce, slash and blunt), or always ignore some fixed % of targets defense. I don't think these would be game breaking, but otherwise some of the relics are just 'better' at doing what other same class weapons do. Spharai adds counter, but not really so much that a Spharai mnk could tank consistently on VT+ mobs. It suffers from the same limitations of all h2h weapons and to me, that is a negative. Its not that I think relics should break the game, but I think each relic should allow the player to do something that he really could not do on that job without the relic. 3) Spharai is just too close to the easily obtainable Destroyers. While Destroyers are not as good, I believe relics should have a larger differential to the next non relic weapon.

In no way do I regret this choice however or the work that went into it. I love mnk and if thats the job you love, you want this relic. It makes my mnk better, gives me consistently solid damage, and makes me a better counter tanker. Period.

Does Final Heaven damage change so much when it's out of stage4 or do other WS get such a big boost out of stage 5 h2h? Because I'm a bit puzzled, my Final Heavens so far in Dyna rival Howling and DK and perform a tad below Asurans. Now I don't think I'm underperforming on my other WS (granted I still need a Hissho Hachimaki). So what's up?

Here's what I use on Final Heaven so far, still a work in progress, testing is limited with lolDyna, should be full h2h tonight with some luck:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u...SetupSoFar.png

[Clave]

Relic WSs do not change going from stage 4 to 5 in any way. Seeing as stage 4 has the same base DMG as stage 5, you would be seeing the same.

I don't own a Spharai, but kinda know 2 players that do. What I gather is, Final Heaven is okay but they cannot really find any situations where they'd use it over Asuran/HF/DK. Apparently the enhanced counter is quite noticeable and is the greatest perk from the weapon apart from the 3x dmg procs.

[Raen Ryong]

uh no? Unless you're vs an HNM, ridill is going to give you tp faster.

Not if you're using meat :X Thief is inaccurate as it is, throw in a low rank skill and you're gonna miss a lot of those hits as it is. Consider then its higher delay and the fact that Thief has natural Triple Attack anyway, weakening the uniqueness Ridill would otherwise bring, and it really can't compare to a Dagger on anything worth a damn.

If you space your SA and TA (as normally happens anyway over the course of a party/event typically), then you can SAWS and TAWS every time they're available with 2x Dagger anyway, assuming haste buffs are present.

[Vodou]

Does Final Heaven damage change so much when it's out of stage4 or do other WS get such a big boost out of stage 5 h2h? Because I'm a bit puzzled, my Final Heavens so far in Dyna rival Howling and DK and perform a tad below Asurans. Now I don't think I'm underperforming on my other WS (granted I still need a Hissho Hachimaki). So what's up?

Here's what I use on Final Heaven so far, still a work in progress, testing is limited with lolDyna, should be full h2h tonight with some luck:

Maybe my statement is too strong about it being bad, but lets say I was disappointed. The over riding point is that except in some uncommon circumstance to make a SC, I don't find a lot of use for it. My mnk does not fight high defense HNMs often and I don't go /thf ever. Against xp mobs or lesser NM, I will do higher damage and more consistent damage with AF.

[Arthars]

Not if you're using meat :X Thief is inaccurate as it is, throw in a low rank skill and you're gonna miss a lot of those hits as it is. Consider then its higher delay and the fact that Thief has natural Triple Attack anyway, weakening the uniqueness Ridill would otherwise bring, and it really can't compare to a Dagger on anything worth a damn.

If you space your SA and TA (as normally happens anyway over the course of a party/event typically), then you can SAWS and TAWS every time they're available with 2x Dagger anyway, assuming haste buffs are present.

there are cases mandau/ridill is better in terms of WS rate yielding overall more damage VS mandau/X knife yielding overall higher WS damage. Vice versa.

a little eg. mandau/ridill is good for 2nd F silvsea remnants for powderkeg. those so many fomor and you might wanna WS more, or SC more to bring them fast saving time(and boredom: 20 mobs to pop a NM zzz). and for 3F silvsea, its good to mandau/x knife since gears weak to piercing and you dont wanna feed extra FEW TP to gears. a LITTLE slower on TP but mandau/x knife will bring down gears faster.

shit is situational but this is 1 of the beauty of mandau AND MY MAIN POINT(sorry if i didnt state clearly). able to use ridill and x knife in different situation.(selection of off hand for a relic). not every job can have a choice to offhand a good weapon for a relic (2H not even able to choose a offhand, and lets not discuss whm and bst offhands cos those relics are rare)

no no dont tell me about k clubs for thf and nin. that combo sucks please dont try it. seen 2 NIN on ifrit already going kikoku/kclub and i died a little inside. its just for town gear kthxbye

ps. my friend only eats meat only now. so he will only use ridill on lesser mobs and x knife on higher mobs. so acc isnt an issue as we talking about offhand variety. he dont miss that much since he knows when to use ridill and when to use X knife. so to sum up. its up to the player's knowledge and not the weapon itself. and to get a relic, its BETTER to be a lil knowledgable if not you may end up in confused/wtf player thread or the relic weapon, which isnt a pleasant experience.

massive flames there if you suck and get a relic O_O;

[Raen Ryong]

Oh that's fine, I just misinterpreted your point as "use Ridill with Mandau" and you can imagine the alarms that set off in my mind. Nothing wrong with using it properly!

[Appie]

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the WS when I got to play with it in Dyna. I expected it to be utter shit based on reports from other monks, so seeing a Howling with a better animation (XD) that could make Light or continue it, made me smile.

[Slott]

I have mandau, x's, ridill, and kraken. Kraken sucks first off. Thief accuracy, even with top of the line gear, blows. I'll typically use mandau/ridill, and use rap harness over homam body (23% haste). The TP gain is nuts, ridill's damage per hit is in line with x's (assuming the mob isn't VT+/hnm) - This is for non merit/HNM situations. X's is obviously better against anything HNM, but it might be better to /war to those anyway. Situations like Einherjar (almost everything before boss), salvage, campaign, limbus, dynamis (although I always offhand TK there), list goes on and on. Just need to use a PCC instead of love torque and make sure you have some sushi. Obviously there's always the "shit is situational" where you just NEED to bust out an offhand dagger, since ridill will miss too much (salvage qiqirn treasure hunters come to mind), or piercing gets a huge damage bonus. The key is knowing which weapon to offhand and when, but you can get pretty amazing results out of either. Ridill is far more situational than x's, but in the situations you can use it, it's orgasmic paired with mandau.

I gave up on meat a while ago. Meat is really great pre-mandau due to differences in playstyle (focus on DOT, split SA, TA and WS vs ws with SA or TA only) A few misses really cut your dps way down opposed to having an extremely high hit rate with a bit less attack, in order to get mercy stroke off faster. Plus, when with a bard, which is a majority of the time, you use minuets and marches anyway, so attack is high enough, and missing just hurts too much. I'm sure other thieves have other opinions with differing results (another similarly geared thief on my server, Mirax) advocates the use of Meat only, but we get similar results. I always carry meat around with me anyway, but I typically just stay with sushi. Different playstyles for different people.

To keep in line with this thread, I'll rate mandau at a 9/10. It's hands down an extremely powerful weapon in the hands of a capable and well geared thief. The damage is high, the weaponskill kicks ass, the poison procs a lot. It's far beyond the damage rating/delay ratio of any other dagger.

Draw backs imo are as follows:
1) The poison can be a pain in the ass, but I really have yet to face a situation where it's gotten me killed.
2) Mercy stroke sucks unbuffed, and I hate hitting my SAMS macro only to find out SA had 2 seconds left on it, until it was ready. Attempts to cancel weaponskill via spellcast and not BuffActive didn't work properly for me.
3) Crit bonus is retarded.

[Messsss]

I still find it really sad to see Bravura Wars use sword/sword setups...but that is not what this post is about.

lulz!

The biggest love for this weapon is the added effects. Nothing beats evasion down, Def Down and Attack Down, plus I get Added Defense after using my WS...

For the record... Bravura does not give attack down, and Metatron's additional effect is lowered damage taken, not added defense.