Rate your relic weapon

[Aksannyi]

This thread is pretty damn interesting. It's good to hear honest discussion on the pros/cons of each relic weapon.

[MillionDollarMan]

I know it's out there..

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...6/Ragnarok.jpg

[Phraust]

I know it's out there..

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...6/Ragnarok.jpg

=[

They all quit and became hermits...

[Archain]

7/10 Mandau. It's an amazing weapon, great WS , STR mod.
Loses 1 point for having Add effectoison, instead of something useful.
Loses 1 point for having Add effect:crit hits on mercy stroke, effect is barely noticable
Loses 1 point for not being an amazing thing to have on HNM. All relic WS should ignore level difference and defense Doing 500-900 mercy on NMs doesn't make me happy.

I'll say pretty much the same thing Wafik said, but my scale is wonky (because I rate it on a kitteh scale).



I'd rate it an 8.6666666 (Repeating, of course)/10, it's still by far the best weapon in it's class.

Pros

• The DoT increase is fairly extreme, the 39 DMG/176 DLY coupled with another weapon has you putting a lot of damage on a target with regular melee strikes. The +20 ATT does help to give THF more punch on every strike that connects with the target. My DoT to WS ratio is about 60%/40% in a merit party if I just focus on my output.
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/0...%20Average.JPG

• SINGLE HIT! The WS is wonderful. STR modified, single hit, and fixed 3.0 fTP. It's dynamite in a small package! If you use this while stacking (as you should) you'll fully connect even when flashed by those fucking Puks or Ghrah. You will not miss with this WS on Mamool Ja Lurkers, despite the fact that they've got sky high evasion, when you stack. Maat's evasion? Screw him, you'll hit him too.
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...at%20Fight.JPG
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...%20Peryton.JPG
  
  MS - Lesser Colibri
  
  MS - Mamool Ja Pikeman

• Triple (3x) base proc is awesome. While it doesn't stack on WS, it will stack on SA and TA hits on occasion. It also stacks with your regular criticals.
  
  3x Proc Sneak Attack - Apollyon
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...%20Critsig.JPG
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...bri%20Crit.JPG

• Above average HNM damage. If they want me there for Treasure Hunter anyway, damn it I'm gonna help it go down too.
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...rk%20Ixion.JPG
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...g%20-%20PO.JPG
  
  http://archain.ultimals.com/images/1...20Prudence.JPG

Cons

• The poison is -10HP/tic. It's honestly something that really doesn't excite me. I think I've actually caused a drop loss on a /20 Boss in Nyzul due to a poison death while the enemy was unclaimed (bad run with pickups, don't ask). You could have placed Apoc's blind additional effect on there and I would have been happy (especially when utilized with THF's natural evasion).
  
  Insert picture of angry pickup group with a burnt tag, no drops, negative XP, time loss, and token loss here.

• The Aftermath effect on MS is really not anything I'd be able to notice. It increases the critical rate, but if it was messed up by a patch I'd never notice the difference. I wouldn't mind a Subtle Blow effect, honestly. It would probably help more than the critical boost I'm getting and it may prevent me from killing the tank if I go into a kitteh blender mode with freak triple attacks.

• SINGLE HIT! Oh shit, the Puk put up Zephyr Mantle! That Mamool Ja Infiltrator just casted Utsusemi: Ni! My entire WS is deadended into a single shadow, lol.
  
  Insert picture of me explaining to the party that I totally intended on using my WS to clear a shadow off of the enemy for their benefit.

• The WS will not reach the DMG output of some of the 2HD weaponskills on extremely high level enemies. I've seen a SAM do DMG in the same range as above to DI with much less effort. I did see that MNK doing Dragon Kick for 2000+ with Indras too.

Great weapon! I can't imagine having gone for anything else.

[MillionDollarMan]

Great post. Would like to see more like that.

[Vanostek]

I'd say 6/10 for the Mjollnir.

I love my weapon. I love everything about it. Now with Mystic Boon out, I never ever ever run out of MP while meeling. 1- for the shitty fucking delay. -3 from the situation below:

• Izzy
  
  • 75 WHM BLM SMN NIN
• Random Melee
  
  • 75 WHM DRK BLU

Let's assume that Mr. Random Melee has shit gear. Let's assume I've outparsed Random Melee in every god damn merit party ever. Let's assume that every time I'm killing something together with Random Melee, I always have hate.

Why, in the name of Jesus fucking CHRIST do you ask ME to come as "non-melee WHM" and ass the shitty fucking DRK to come as DRK to events? Why can I not come on my WHM that clearly outdamages the other guy's MNK and make that fucker come WHM to heal ME?!

Seriously, that is the ONLY thing I hate the most about my relic weapon. This happens all the time, and it makes me want to fucking punch whomever is making job lists/alliances in the face as hard as I can.

I wanna meripo with your melee WHM ^^b

[Izzy]

I wanna meripo with your melee WHM ^^b

I think I've seen your gear, and you would probley wipe the floor with my face.

[Teorem]

I'd appreciate hearing from DRGs that completed their Gungnir whether they've been feeling any serious buyer's remorse since then, with readily-available lances' base damage continually getting higher and higher with every passing update.

I've been working on the upgrade a while now, but have been having a lot of second thoughts since Ryunohige was released. A Valkyrie's Fork is realistically within the realm of possibility for me eventually, and I've heard the suggestions that relic weapons may strengthened to set them further apart from everything else, but I'm curious to know if you've found Gungnir and Geirskogul to be worthwhile in a variety of settings up to now.

[Loziel]

At this stage i dont have Either a Ryunohige or Gungnir but its pretty safe to say that using Gungnir and performing Drakesbane can not be a bad thing. I dont expect any more lances to be released that will break the D95 Barrier set by Valk of Thel+1.
If you are looking for the most Single Hit Damage possible for HNM then lookin no further than Gungnir, 2h Relics are pretty nice.

[algrensan]

for SAM, its all about spamming WS. Hagun is a good temp GKT until u get amano. its like a "semi-relic" thingy before you get the real one.

hagun is a good temp gkt until amano but i don't get everyone's describing hagun as a "semi-relic."

don't get me wrong i love my amano and pwn everyone i've parsed so far and i'm even on sam/nin.

[richardd]

to amano owners: is Kaiten really THAT bad on hnm's? especially if you have the ability to spam it? Does anyone have a parse of a tia? or khim with full buffs and food that cost more than 10k that they can share some insight on?

[Cream Soda]

When people say Spharai suck they mean overall damage vs. overall damage they are barely better than destroyers. You don't upgrade Spharai because you want your monk to be damage king of the universe, anybody who upgraded them in the hopes of this would have rated them much lower.

When some sponsorship opens, I'll be going for Spharai. The damage is barely over destroyers, but the counter is godly.

[Contract]

I don't have a parse or SS, but SA Kaiten does about 900-1100 on Khim with both minuets and just a meat mithkabob. Khim is on the softer side of HNMs, though.

On something like Tiamat you'd need much better food and probably some etudes to go with the minuets for Kaiten to do close to Gekko's damage. Basically for Kaiten to equal Gekko on HNMs with above average defense, you need more than just two minuets and you have to spend alot more money on food. Even with all that covered though you still end up seeing some really low damage Kaitens(400-700), so it's just much more efficient to stick with Gekko(for your damage and your wallet).

As for spamming Kaiten, it might be more overall damage on some HNMs than SAing Gekko, but on most of those same HNMs spamming Gekko is still going to get you better numbers than Kaiten will.

[Epical]

Nice review, Archain. That's what they should all be like.

[Ayn]

When some sponsorship opens, I'll be going for Spharai. The damage is barely over destroyers, but the counter is godly.

Spharai is +10 counter, right?

[Cream Soda]

Spharai is +10 counter, right?

Yes, which if I'm correct is counter+30 under counterstance.

From lolwiki:
Keeping this ability active will greatly increase a character's counter rate by approximately 3 times the normal counter rate.

Edit: At capped acc you have 10% base counter, 15 with merits. So, with Spharai alone, at caped acc, you'd have a 75% counter rate, but since counters can miss (a missed counter won't show in the log you just won't counter. Can test on a high evasion mob and notice how much lower your counter rate is), your rate won't show as 75% on a parser for example. Then you could add on all the other coutner gear available, but I'm sure theres a hard cap somewhere down the line.

[Vodou]

Yes, which if I'm correct is counter+30 under counterstance.

From lolwiki:
Keeping this ability active will greatly increase a character's counter rate by approximately 3 times the normal counter rate.

Edit: At capped acc you have 10% base counter, 15 with merits. So, with Spharai alone, at caped acc, you'd have a 75% counter rate, but since counters can miss (a missed counter won't show in the log you just won't counter. Can test on a high evasion mob and notice how much lower your counter rate is), your rate won't show as 75% on a parser for example. Then you could add on all the other coutner gear available, but I'm sure theres a hard cap somewhere down the line.

As much as I'd like that to be true, the parses from gradient, cowardly baboon and others just don't seem to show that. Still would be major hot if it did so I'd like to be very wrong.

I'm of a mind that it gives a flat +10% increment with no prior or subsequent multiplier.

I guess if the hard cap was 75%, its possible that in fact Spharai do give that much (i.e., 30%), but that you won't notice it with all the other counter gear and merits.

I don't recall if anyone wore just Spharai and went naked against TW mobs to see if counter was 75%. I know that people are parsing as high as 60+% with no Spharai and that no one (even with Spharai) is parsing over 80%. So, maybe the cap is around 75% or maybe Spharai give only 10-15%. I don't know but either seems plausible.

[Ayn]

That's the main thing I've always been confused over: I wasn't sure if gear was included in the multiplier for Counterstance.

Also another misconception of mine, I thought base counter rate was 15% and merits raised it to 20%?

If the relic counter's included in the multiplier, then yes, that's certainly significant (even moreso than Cross Counters).

It's hard to gauge, I suppose. If Monk was the only job I had leveled (and ever would level/use) I'd be all for that weapon, and it's certainly a nice accomplishment to strive for.

With the other jobs I have leveled, the only thing that keeps going through my head is "Ok, Attack +20 is nice, but it's. . +5 more counter than my CCs, woo."

I imagine the triple proc must be nice during HF, though.

[Cream Soda]

I'm fairly certain base counter is 10%, can't put my finger on it where I read it, but thats what I can say 99% that its been. Also though, w/o counterstance, I don't counter for shit, so that also leaves me less inclined to think it'd be a 20% chance.

[Neosutra]

Base counter from trait: 10%
Counter from merits: 5%
Counter from Counterstance: 40%
Counter from Spharai: 10%

Can get another 8 or so from gear, not counting hp based latent stuff.