Rate your relic weapon

[Cream Soda]

Don't forget melee gaiters.

[Ophannus]

if amano and mandau are getting 7's and 8's from people I can only imagine Gungnir is like a 2 or a 3. At least Aftermath for the former are useful, but shock spikes? the kind that do 13 dmg to things and rarely stun? and the ws is on par roughly with just spinning slash, a second rate ws.

[Tubbers]

From what I hear the DEF down effect from Gungnir proc is fairly frequent and potent, I think most Gungnir users are pretty happy with it aside from Shock Spikes.

[Wolfknight]

From what I hear the DEF down effect from Gungnir proc is fairly frequent and potent, I think most Gungnir users are pretty happy with it aside from the wtf agi mod instead of real stat mod

seriously I think most drg would rather SE change the dam mod than spikes, since like no drg gear has agi why it, why not str, dex, or even vit

[Tubbers]

I figure most Gungnir DRG would just used Penta anyways lol

[Wolfknight]

I figure most Gungnir DRG would just used Penta anyways lol

drakesbane now, but still if SE had given not retard mod it probably could have been a much better ws.

[Appie]

Uh, now I haven't bothered looking this up in forever, but I always thought it was:
15% base counter
45% counter with Counterstance
5% from merits, counterstance doesn't affect this, stays 5%
10% from Melee Gaiters if counterstance'd
10% from Spharai, no additional boost from stance just like merits

Making a possible 70% total, ignoring your acc rate.
I have parsed 50-55% counter many times in merit pt's before Spharai, which would follow this math with a 85-90% hitrate, which I had too.

[Neosutra]

Uh, now I haven't bothered looking this up in forever, but I always thought it was:
15% base counter
45% counter with Counterstance
5% from merits, counterstance doesn't affect this, stays 5%
10% from Melee Gaiters if counterstance'd
10% from Spharai, no additional boost from stance just like merits

Making a possible 70% total, ignoring your acc rate.
I have parsed 50-55% counter many times in merit pt's before Spharai, which would follow this math with a 85-90% hitrate, which I had too.

10% base counter, been tested alot.

And ya, I did forget gaiters extra 10%.

[Ophannus]

the def down from gungnir kind of makes angon and spirit surge jump less valuable :/

[Sho]

Awesome thread. And wru Gungniiiiiirrrrr. Must hear from one directly, sorry guys lol.

[Grey Jorildyn]

the def down from gungnir kind of makes angon and spirit surge jump less valuable :/

I read this as:

the def down from angon and spirit surge jump make gungnir less valuable, which is (also) probably (more) true.

[Croaker]

9/10 Mandau

I rate it highly for being very fun to use and being the highest weapon in its class.

Poison isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Its about 10HP/tick. If it showed up on a parse and people got credit for the extra DoT, they would probably love it.

Now that we have an aftermath symbol, it was fairly easy to determine the critical bonus is +5%. Not usefull IMO, but not exactly a negative either.

The only negative mark I give the Mandau is for the Mercy Stroke being useless in all solo situations.

[Rhealana]

Gungnir DRG here.

I find it hard to give it only one rating. Yes, shock spikes is more or less generally fail. Compared to other relics, it's got some less-than-desireable properties as far as WS and Aftermath are concerned. The relic WS is generally best used with /THF sub.

In that I'd give it a 5/10.

However.

For dragoons, it is THE BEST WEAPON in the game. Bar none. The new mythic Ryunohige? IMO lolworthy compared to Gungnir. Valkyrie's Fork? Pfft. Couple it with Drakesbane which is what I consider a 'fix' to my relic WS, and it is just plain insane. My gear sets is still missing some major important pieces such as Ares and Hecatomb Cap/Subligar. This is mostly my lack of involvement in a linkshell that camped kings or killed Odin until recently.. or Arrapago Remnants that will only drop if I'm not around. However even without that, against fully meritted DRGs with the said gear and VFork, I've easily trumped them in parses and kept up with other more 'desireable melee relics' in end game.

You can't ignore the native +20acc, Defense Down procs that happens quite often, and the 2.5x damage procs. The aftermath of Drakesbane on Ryunohige may possibly bring the overall DOT of Ryunohige on par with Gungnir, but that's still to be researched and is still an unknown. As of this moment, Gungnir still reigns supreme over other polearms a dragoon could hope to wield efficiently.

Knowing that, I'd give Gungnir a 9/10.

Average it out, and generally I'd probably say, 7/10 would be an accurate representation.

[Neosutra]

Gungnir DRG here.

I find it hard to give it only one rating. Yes, shock spikes is more or less generally fail. Compared to other relics, it's got some less-than-desireable properties as far as WS and Aftermath are concerned. The relic WS is generally best used with /THF sub.

In that I'd give it a 5/10.

However.

For dragoons, it is THE BEST WEAPON in the game. Bar none. The new mythic Ryunohige? IMO lolworthy compared to Gungnir. Valkyrie's Fork? Pfft. Couple it with Drakesbane which is what I consider a 'fix' to my relic WS, and it is just plain insane. My gear sets is still missing some major important pieces such as Ares and Hecatomb Cap/Subligar. This is mostly my lack of involvement in a linkshell that camped kings or killed Odin until recently.. or Arrapago Remnants that will only drop if I'm not around. However even without that, against fully meritted DRGs with the said gear and VFork, I've easily trumped them in parses and kept up with other more 'desireable melee relics' in end game.

You can't ignore the native +20acc, Defense Down procs that happens quite often, and the 2.5x damage procs. The aftermath of Drakesbane on Ryunohige may possibly bring the overall DOT of Ryunohige on par with Gungnir, but that's still to be researched and is still an unknown. As of this moment, Gungnir still reigns supreme over other polearms a dragoon could hope to wield efficiently.

Knowing that, I'd give Gungnir a 9/10.

Average it out, and generally I'd probably say, 7/10 would be an accurate representation.

Holy crap a real drg with gungir, can you post gear shots for those in disbelief?

[Rhealana]

<.< I was in the relic thread towards the beginning of the year.

And you can always look me up on FFXIAH.com.

Or just look at my sig?

[Loziel]

Gungnir DRG here.

I find it hard to give it only one rating. Yes, shock spikes is more or less generally fail. Compared to other relics, it's got some less-than-desireable properties as far as WS and Aftermath are concerned. The relic WS is generally best used with /THF sub.

In that I'd give it a 5/10.

However.

For dragoons, it is THE BEST WEAPON in the game. Bar none. The new mythic Ryunohige? IMO lolworthy compared to Gungnir. Valkyrie's Fork? Pfft. Couple it with Drakesbane which is what I consider a 'fix' to my relic WS, and it is just plain insane. My gear sets is still missing some major important pieces such as Ares and Hecatomb Cap/Subligar. This is mostly my lack of involvement in a linkshell that camped kings or killed Odin until recently.. or Arrapago Remnants that will only drop if I'm not around. However even without that, against fully meritted DRGs with the said gear and VFork, I've easily trumped them in parses and kept up with other more 'desireable melee relics' in end game.

You can't ignore the native +20acc, Defense Down procs that happens quite often, and the 2.5x damage procs. The aftermath of Drakesbane on Ryunohige may possibly bring the overall DOT of Ryunohige on par with Gungnir, but that's still to be researched and is still an unknown. As of this moment, Gungnir still reigns supreme over other polearms a dragoon could hope to wield efficiently.

Knowing that, I'd give Gungnir a 9/10.

Average it out, and generally I'd probably say, 7/10 would be an accurate representation.

Thanks for chipping in with that. I completely respect your first hand opinion on Gungnir, but I wouldnt be so quick to write off Ryunohige untill we see some completed Mythics. If the Aftermath works in the way we all expect them too, its going to be a pretty close call with the Mythic potentially being better IMO. I think 'lolworthy' may be going a little far, especially adding the Guranteed Critical Jumps and increased Wyvern DOT into the mix

[Rhealana]

Well, my simple, possibly flawed logic based upon existing formula:

The weapons:
Ryunohige. DMG92. Jump and High Jump crit guaranteed. WS at 100% and you get 10 seconds of likely 50% DA, with increased acc/atk for yourself and wyvern during the same period. WS itself isn't unique to weapon, so doesn't count.

Gungnir. DMG100. Acc+20. Possible defense down proc on your target mob. Possible 2.5x damage proc on any melee attack. Unique WS but really only in narrow situations would you ever use.

The meat & potatoes:
Base DMG difference is 8. Melee damage calculation is:

Base DMG + fSTR, where fSTR's part of the equation raises by 1 for every 4 STR you add. This means Gungnir has the equivalent of STR+24 compared to Ryunohige. This base DMG is also not affected by fSTR's variable modifier of weapon rank.

Incidentally, Gungnir wins out here as well, as Gungnir's weapon rank is 11 versus Ryunohige's 10. So on a per weapon strike basis, Gungnir wins out by literally doing more damage (due to base damage) and has a higher potential (higher weapon rank).

So now let's evaluate the side bonuses:

Ryunohige: Jump and High Jump crits - No denying that this is great. But that doesn't mean non-Ryunohige users can't still crit their jumps either. And depending on merits you're looking at adding 100-300 damage every ~70 seconds.

Gungnir: 2.5x damage proc. Personal subjective observation, this processes during a meripo at least once every 1-2 minutes of constant fighting. Coupled with the base damage increase, I'd say this is definitely comparable to the jump crits. And there's nothing sexier than 2.5x proc on a crit.

Ryunohige: 50%? DA after WS along with increased acc/atk for you+wyvern. I still haven't seen actual hard evidence on the duration of this Aftermath at 100% WS, so no I can't place a value on this just yet. If it indeed is 50% DA, and the Aftermath effect lasts as long as Geirskogul's Shock Spikes effect, then you can very well keep Aftermath up full-time. Knowing SE however, it's 10 seconds. That's between 2 and 3 combat rounds. If it's 50% of the time, you will likely get 1, MAYBE 2 extra attacks before your Aftermath wears.

Gungnir: ACC+20, and Defense Down procs. The ACC is just enough for me to cap my ACC% at Greater Colibri camp wearing Askar (Would apply to Ares as well if I had it). Ryunohige wielders will need to deal with finding that additional 10% ACC, in which case would have to swap out Askar/Ares for something like Homam. That's a big net-loss in ATK/STR/Store TP/DA in the case of Askar and ATK/STR/VIT/Refresh for Ares for the added ACC needed to cap accuracy. And that's only at bird camp. Wielding Gungnir versus Ryunohige means you WILL be more accurate with a heavier hitting weapon, no matter what situation you're in. Now factor in Defense Down. Assuming you're made of gil and chuck out Angon every moment you can with capped merits, you still have 50% of the time where Angon's Defense Down isn't in effect. We all know how beneficial this effect is to not only yourself but everyone in your party and alliance that does physical damage, but it's hard to tell HOW much. Suffice it to say though, that a proc when you don't have Angon up is going to always be welcome.

PS. Perhaps 'lolworthy' might have been harsh. But 5k alexandrite on Garuda x 30K needed is way more than what Gungnir costs, and Gungnir didn't require going through the hoops of 100 assaults, Odin, TOAU Beastmen Kings, Einherjar repeatedly, Nyzul repeatedly, Salvage chariot NMs, etc. It's lolworthy for the effort. I'd do it for Burtgang, but I sure as hell wouldn't do it for Ryunohige.

[Raen Ryong]

It's really good to see someone with a relic really know how to use it. It's difficult to compare the base DMG to STR very literally because you are not getting Attack from that STR and it'll be worth less than 24STR would be on WS, but it's a fairly valid comparison as long as you ignore those two factors.

That said, I agree with your reasoning.

[Scarmiglione]

Awesome thread. Thanks for the input of all relic bearers :D But where are the BSTs at?

[Loziel]

Its a good breakdown and you make a strong argument for Gungnir, but only time will tell. I am personally working towards Ryunohige right now.

One point though, it is very easy to cap acc on Drg at merits without using acc on body piece, I use Askar all the way for TP and never fail to cap out.