New Best Dragoon Weapon?

[Nameless]

Seeing that Drakesbane is going to be the primary WS for dragoons now, what will be the ideal weapon aside from relic and myth and perhaps Valkyrie Fork for both tp and ws?

Thalassocrat
Dmg: 94 Dly: 492
HP: 10 DEX: 2 VIT: 2
Additional Effect: Impairs Evasion
Enhances "Resist Virus" Effect

Cletine
Dmg: 91 Dly: 480
HP: 15 MP: 15 VIT: 5 MND: 5
Critical Hit Rate: 3%

Skystrider
Dmg: 93 Dly: 492
Set: Increases Attack
Set: Increases "Magic Attack Bonus"
Set: Increases Ranged Attack
Set: Increases STR
Jump TP Bonus

The set bonus for skystrider is said to be 6 str 6 attack (10 attack including the 4 given by 6 str) with the earring, and Jump TP bonus is said to be an extra 5 tp per jump.

So there you go, taken into consideration that assault earring is probably the best ear2 for dragoon, Skystrider's end set bonus is more like 6 str and 5 attack and -2 acc. So, which one of the three in your opinion is the best weapon. Note that drakesbane's mod is 50% str and can critical if you are too lazy to look it up.

Any input will be great. Thank you.

[Therin]

Cletine is out for sure, so it's between Thalassocrat and Skystrider. I guess you could make a case for Skystrider due to the Jump TP Bonus but otherwise they're pretty equal.

[Starr]

Skystrider>>>Thallo NQ, but hey Valkyries is better than both =(

[The Stig]

If Thallo/Skystrider/Valk isn't an option due to availability/not being able to attend events/lack of funds (for now) is Cletine a decent alternative for the time being until I get one of the above? I do a bit of ZNM and no one lotted Cletine last time so it went to rot...

[Therin]

Yeah, after Mezraq Cletine would be the best.

[Callisto]

Cletine is decent now with the addition of Drakesbane(and in the same vein perhaps Claymore Grip is a bit more stylish now), but I would still take Mezraq over it as I think 480 can bork a 6-hit build as DRG/SAM vs 492.

[SamanosukeShiva]

dont forget the STR/Attack bonus, iirc it's like +6str/+5 attack or something with the earring

[Callisto]

And the MAB yo

[Nameless]

Just a side question. For a long long time that I always thought that tp gain is floored to the first decimal, meaning 13.36 will be 13.3. However, I was just checking BG wiki today and saw that under each weapon, it actually list the second decimal. I was wonder if it is floored to the second decimal instead of the first?

This will make a big difference for naglering 6 hit build as you will need +23 store tp for tping and +21 instead of +22 for ws to reach 100%.

Thoughts?

As for Cletine's delay, I actually think it helps the damage due to the fact that all you need is +27 store tp for tping and +21 for ws (need to connect 3 of 4 hits) for a 6 hit build. With askar body or aurum cuirass being two of the ideal body pieces for drg, I don't see how cletine's delay will make or break the 6 hit build, and under the same hit build, the lower the delay the better it is. Same reason why perdu sickle is by far better than tred. scythe. Again, thoughts?

[Callisto]

Just a side question. For a long long time that I always thought that tp gain is floored to the first decimal, meaning 13.36 will be 13.3. However, I was just checking BG wiki today and saw that under each weapon, it actually list the second decimal. I was wonder if it is floored to the second decimal instead of the first?

It's floored to the first decimal, BG-Wiki just lists the technical TP amount.

Edit:

As for Cletine's delay, I actually think it helps the damage due to the fact that all you need is +27 store tp for tping and +21 for ws (need to connect 3 of 4 hits) for a 6 hit build. With askar body or aurum cuirass being two of the ideal body pieces for drg, I don't see how cletine's delay will make or break the 6 hit build, and under the same hit build, the lower the delay the better it is. Same reason why perdu sickle is by far better than tred. scythe. Again, thoughts?

I might have been wrong on it, I just recall when I was using friend's DRG and I looked at it the 480 would make me lose 6-hit. He has Askar/Rajas/Brutal/Chiv, I may have just maffed it wrong though.

[ringthree]

Why is no one mentioning Mezraq? With the stats on Drakesbane, there will be many cases where Merzaq would statistically out perform Thal, I believe.

[Callisto]

Yeah, after Mezraq Cletine would be the best.

Cletine is decent now with the addition of Drakesbane(and in the same vein perhaps Claymore Grip is a bit more stylish now), but I would still take Mezraq over it as I think 480 can bork a 6-hit build as DRG/SAM vs 492.

?

[Nameless]

Why is no one mentioning Mezraq? With the stats on Drakesbane, there will be many cases where Merzaq would statistically out perform Thal, I believe.

It wouldn't really make a difference even though dex isn't a modifier for drakesbane, it will still increase your critical hit rate.

Not to mention the 1 base damage advantage from thala just about cover the 2 str.

[ringthree]

It wouldn't really make a difference even though dex isn't a modifier for drakesbane, it will still increase your critical hit rate.

Not to mention the 1 base damage advantage from thala just about cover the 2 str.

Actually, they are essentially equal as it is before Drakesbane (already posted about this several times with a graph illustrating the minimal difference). After Drakesbane, Mezraq will have better WS mods, and for at least half the time it will have the same base damage and a smidge better attack.

As for DEX = crit, I always LOL at this. Whether you think it is tiers or linear, either way the additional DEX will make a barely parsable difference in critical hit outcomes.

[drewbixcube]

I honestly loved the extra 5tp from my skystrider so much I just sold thalassocrat, but then again anything that I don't need I sell. Skystrider+Supremacy will probably outdo Thalasso, but I'm not a mathematician. I just want Valk fork

[Dohorehn]

What does Skystrider look like? (I like your icon.)

[Nameless]

Actually, they are essentially equal as it is before Drakesbane (already posted about this several times with a graph illustrating the minimal difference). After Drakesbane, Mezraq will have better WS mods, and for at least half the time it will have the same base damage and a smidge better attack.

As for DEX = crit, I always LOL at this. Whether you think it is tiers or linear, either way the additional DEX will make a barely parsable difference in critical hit outcomes.

I think the same way on the Dex part as you did before, thinking that +2 dex probably wouldn't make a difference in critical hit rate until I read this under the drakesbane thread, which I made:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by eva00r
IIRC, if you have 50 more DEX versus monster's AGI, your crit rate will be 25%. Not including merit/weapon bonus/etc... There was a test in alla I think.

Correct me if i was wrong.

G Colibri have 67 AGI, so 117 DEX is theoretically suffice.
Crit hit rate starting to raise very quick once you go beyond 40 DEX point"

So yea, if 117 is to cap your critical hit rate on bird, I think that +2 will help.

Feel free to tell me it is wrong tho as I haven't found the test in alla that the person was talking about.

[ringthree]

I think the same way on the Dex part as you did before, thinking that +2 dex probably wouldn't make a difference in critical hit rate until I read this under the drakesbane thread, which I made:

"Quote:
Originally Posted by eva00r
IIRC, if you have 50 more DEX versus monster's AGI, your crit rate will be 25%. Not including merit/weapon bonus/etc... There was a test in alla I think.

Correct me if i was wrong.

G Colibri have 67 AGI, so 117 DEX is theoretically suffice.
Crit hit rate starting to raise very quick once you go beyond 40 DEX point"

So yea, if 117 is to cap your critical hit rate on bird, I think that +2 will help.

Feel free to tell me it is wrong tho as I haven't found the test in alla that the person was talking about.

That information is incorrect, or at least conjecture with very limited evidence. The evidence that I saw and graphed (earlier in this thread) indicated that there may be an exponential increase in crits as DEX increases, but to draw such specific conclusions from very limited information is ridiculous. There were far too many gaps in the numbers to draw any conclusions, and there is no evidence how much DEX is needed to reach a new crit %.

Believe me, I believe that there is not a tiered increase in crits, but a straight increase based on DEX, but even if that is the case, I still don't think that justifies rejecting Mezraq over the additional benefits it presents to Drakesbane. Also, I haven't seen any evidence as to where the cap on crits is so far.

[Wolfknight]

I'd say Skystrider + earring for anything not /mage, not sure which I'd use on /mage because no way I'd drop using ethereal earring for some att and str

[Tan]

I'd say Skystrider + earring for anything not /mage, not sure which I'd use on /mage because no way I'd drop using ethereal earring for some att and str

You could always simply WS w/ the Earring on for the Set Bonus on whatever WS you choose. I think people are focusing too much on the STR/ATT bonus w/ the Set vs the TP Gain with Jump. I would think that it would be possible w/ Conte Body/Pants + this polearm to get some really high TP gain Jumps (Possibly 25ish TP? Haven't really run any math.)