Presidential Debate 9/26/08

[Kuya]

I think the constant condescending behaviour from McCain towards Obama as a person who knows far more, by itself, could go either way, but Obama constantly saying "I agree with McCain" is only going to help reinforce the notion he was trying to force.

[Not Kuno]

anyone watching CNN? McCain's advisor is pretty hot

Yeah but I had to mute it because she's functionally retarded.

[octopus]

Joe Biden looks like he can pwn both Obama and McCain in a debate in this interview, lol...

[Tokitoki]

Some of the things that McCain said literally made me facepalm. One of the facts that they have in the ticker-thing on CNN is a good example. Youll know it when you see it.

[aurik]

Yea shit Biden's fucking great lol.

[Elvis]

Exactly. Obama is being sincere.

Notice those moments when McCain presented a misrepresentation of Obama's points.

Then McCain would make a very BROAD popular point (Israel needs to be protected from evil Hitler-esque Arab guy in evil Iran). Of course Obama has to first preface any rebuttal by agreeing to this PERCIEVED truism.

It's the same rhetoric that McCain used when talking about the troops. His narrative is an OBVIOUS emotional cudgel. You can't disagree with the troops being honorable and blah blah blah. There's no substance to what he's saying though. It's just HOW he's saying a obvious popular statement.

So then we have Obama talking about how we should make wise decisions. This is going to be percieved as Obama distancing himself from the wholesome apple-pie goodness of American soldier. The momentum is now with McCain because he's basically telling us a story. It's a style over substance narrative. Obama is trying to talk about the stuff that matters. But people will NOTICE the warm fuzzy blah blah blahing of McCain.

Add the condescention(sp) and the self-touting of maverick and blah blah, and McCain - rhetorically speaking - maintains the edge.

But for all the WRONG REASONS.

Too bad most people are dumb and will judge this based on entertainment value.

[Maxxthepenguin]

"I'd love to have Sarah Palin join us like Joe Biden just did"

"Don't hold your breath"

rofl

[ByeByeTasai]

I think the constant condescending behaviour from McCain towards Obama as a person who knows far more, by itself, could go either way, but Obama constantly saying "I agree with McCain" is only going to help reinforce the notion he was trying to force.

I disagree, he mostly agreed on facts and common sense. All though, I can't wait to here Kissenger's response to the disagreement on his own ideas.

[Elvis]

McCain isnt concerned with what matters. He doesnt get into specifics. He tells stories and relies on rigid statements that don't contradict Obama's foreign policy but undermine it in TONE.

Tone is the key. Talk about how bad the Iranian government and president are. Then when Obama wants to have chats with them, make sure you let the public know that the Iranian president is evil and wants to kill all the jews. This isn't an attack on Obama's policy in entirety. It's an attack on the tone. Obama doesn't rely on emotional rhetoric. So McCain gains the edge in that he appeals to fear.

[Senoska]

Obama kicked the shit out of McCain on Iraq

The whole "You were wrong", holy shit.

edit: Link (DAMMMMMMNNNNNNN)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZZ_hr284Sg

[Kuya]

The thing is it doesn't really matter to be very precise and detailed here and now; i know Obama was agreeing with statements he couldn't possibly disagree with and then expand on them, but what makes anyone think that it isn't part of the strategy to make Obama agree with statements he can't possibly disagree with and then use Obama's very apparent agreeing with McCain and the latter's condescending behaviour to portray Obama, as once again, inexperienced and unsure.

[Elvis]

thats what im saying

mccain's strategy is to rely on emotional rhetoric. obama is a pragmatist and more of a scholar than mccain easily. he's going to talk about the issues as an analyst. mccain is going to tell stories. he talked about eisenhower and yada yada yada. its all bullshit.

just goes to show you how insincere mccain has become. he's completely twofaced. is this election and the future about the issues for him? or just 'winning' no matter what? ironically, its a two-way street with mccain here as it is with any elected official but the emphasis is on the people with respect to this rhetoric

we need to see through this EMPTY bs

its sort of like Bush mockingly smiling/borderline laughing at Kerry during the 04 debate. its all style

[Tyche]

Exactly. Obama is being sincere.

Notice those moments when McCain presented a misrepresentation of Obama's points.

Then McCain would make a very BROAD popular point (Israel needs to be protected from evil Hitler-esque Arab guy in evil Iran). Of course Obama has to first preface any rebuttal by agreeing to this PERCIEVED truism.

It's the same rhetoric that McCain used when talking about the troops. His narrative is an OBVIOUS emotional cudgel. You can't disagree with the troops being honorable and blah blah blah. There's no substance to what he's saying though. It's just HOW he's saying a obvious popular statement.

So then we have Obama talking about how we should make wise decisions. This is going to be percieved as Obama distancing himself from the wholesome apple-pie goodness of American soldier. The momentum is now with McCain because he's basically telling us a story. It's a style over substance narrative. Obama is trying to talk about the stuff that matters. But people will NOTICE the warm fuzzy blah blah blahing of McCain.

Add the condescention(sp) and the self-touting of maverick and blah blah, and McCain - rhetorically speaking - maintains the edge.

But for all the WRONG REASONS.

Too bad most people are dumb and will judge this based on entertainment value.

It's a head to head debate strategy that's been employed since the beginning of time. There is no "wrong reason...". You may not like the strategy, but the ultimate goal of a debate is public persona, not so much a simple regurgitation of policy points. This is your chance attach a face, a personality to a nation-wide audience. With that said...I thought substance wise, McCain was lacking. Obama was scripted fantastically and seemed to try to stick to it as closely as possibly. On the other hand, I didn't think Obama's articulation and speaking was anywhere even close to par with McCain. McCain's largest articulation problem was redundancy. Obama had pausing issues, a little stuttering, but not as bad as I'd figure, and some of his pronunciations (this was mentioned earlier) was...I'm drawing a blank here...like not americanized. Poor wording by myself I'm sure. Those all go a pretty long way. Overall, factoring in everything, probably a toss up, maybe slight McCain edge. On paper, this should have been a McCain landslide. Future debates look better for Obama. This wasn't his strongest topical area.

[ByeByeTasai]

So by that rational, if McCain were to say "this war is hurting our economy" and Obama agreed with him, that it would look good for McCain? What about the fact that McCain constantly misquoted Obama, and when corrected couldn't come up with a quick response to strengthen his argument? McCain spoke vaguely on every issue that came up tonight, the only time he got into specific details he was just regurgitating common knowledge. Of course Obama is going to agree with that, as anyone would.

You can't look at the structure, you have to look at the content. And that seems to be the difference between the candidacies this year. Obama is focusing on detail and content. McCain is concentrating on his political structure in an extremely vague sense. He is too concerned with separating himself from Bush, which he should be concerned with, that he is falling behind in preparing policies. His policies are entirely too close to what is already in place, which are in no way working. And a spending freeze? No, that's not naive.

edit: lol Kissenger is pissed, he didn't disagree with what Obama said, he just said that he is displeased that Obama used him in an argument.

[Elvis]

Look, I know this is the norm in American politics.

It shouldn't be though. THAT'S the point. If people can acknowledge that it's a dance but that some fully embrace it while others do not, then lets pay closer attention to the articulation of the issues rather than stories about how he met a guy and his mom gave him a whatever.

[Elvis]

And btw McCain only wins in style. It's phony though and we should acknowledge that. Obama stuck to the issues and while he paused a little too much here and there, he did not stray away from his beliefs.

What do we take away from McCain now? Lets look at his responses to the Iran question or the economy or the Kissenger lie. It's farcical.

[Tyche]

Look, I know this is the norm in American politics.

It shouldn't be though. THAT'S the point. If people can acknowledge that it's a dance but that some fully embrace it while others do not, then lets pay closer attention to the articulation of the issues rather than stories about how he met a guy and his mom gave him a whatever.

This isn't something fixable by changing american politics...the political machine is irrelevant. Our debates aren't much different than other nations. There's a debate, points are thrown out, etc. It would almost have to be a revamp of the american society and media.

[Beckwin]

Early polls are indicating independents/undecideds are responding more favorably to Obama over McCain.

[Beckwin]

This isn't something fixable by changing american politics...the political machine is irrelevant. Our debates aren't much different than other nations. There's a debate, points are thrown out, etc. It would almost have to be a revamp of the american society and media.

revamping society by improving our education and restoring pride in intellect so we cut down on the dumbfucks that get sold on pandering garbage?

[Elvis]

btw, did anyone notice how McCain smirked when Obama said Ahmadinejad wasnt the most powerful person in Iran? Thats a true statement backed up by our intelligence agencies. its the ayattolah(sp)

see i can imagine someone hearing that from obama BUT then seeing McFail smirk (quite noticeably) and thinking "oh Obama wants to play ball with the iranians after they said they want to kill all da jews and now he underestimates the new hitler?"

and you KNOW that mccain knows this. its just another UNDERHANDED maneuvar. he's pandering to the fear mongers in our country who perpetuate these lies about how iran wants to wipe israel off the map and is going to nuke everyone in sight.