Presidential Debate 9/26/08

[geno]

Look, I know this is the norm in American politics.

It shouldn't be though. THAT'S the point. If people can acknowledge that it's a dance but that some fully embrace it while others do not, then lets pay closer attention to the articulation of the issues rather than stories about how he met a guy and his mom gave him a whatever.

You sound as idealistic as a third party candidate. Both candidates know how politics works in this nation, and its unlikely to change no matter how much we may want it to.

That said, this is how I'd score the debate; the economy questions, I think Obama did slightly better, but not as good as he could have been. He'll need to improve by the time the economy debate comes up. He made up for it though when he managed his way through the Iraq question better than anyone expected. From there out though, the debate went more or less as I expected: in McCain's favor, leading to an overall tie or slight lead for McCain. That's not good news for McCain though. He needed to be an easy victor in this one (I for one, had pretty high expectations for him going in) and he didn't do that. He really slipped on Iraq when Obama kept saying "You were wrong" looking straight at McCain feigning a smile. McCain definitely didn't lose the debate, but he did let Obama get one of the strongest lines in and that may have a longer lasting effect.

[Elvis]

This isn't something fixable by changing american politics...the political machine is irrelevant. Our debates aren't much different than other nations. There's a debate, points are thrown out, etc. It would almost have to be a revamp of the american society and media.

its possible imo. i think we'll see small changes over time. having the attitude that we cant do anything about it is wrong and contradicts the popular movements throughout history. they are all achieved by slow small victories the culmination of which leads to upheavals in power (civil rights, womans suffrage).

alternative news media is widely available now w/ the internet/etc. so i wouldnt worry too much about the MSM. people will get more savvy in their intake of the news as time goes on because the tech will reach people at younger ages (and HOPEFULLY allowing people to get acquanted with alternate and independent news sources). MSM will always be popular though because its the most accessible.

you're wrong about our debates in comparison to other countries. there's lots of examples of inspiring democratic elections (focused on the issues, etc)

[Tyche]

revamping society by improving our education and restoring pride in intellect so we cut down on the dumbfucks that get sold on pandering garbage?

You can go back decades and the same principle strategies are employed. It isn't even with just presidential debates. Open house debates, high school debates, hell, debate classes and books harp on many of these issues. It's not even really the pandering, it's the way the pandering is presented. Debates are almost exclusively about presentation and adaption. Did you notice how McCain pressed the moderator and tried to get away with as much as possible as far as interrupting. McCain acted like he wanted to talk for an hour strait. He probably did. I don't think it's so much an education issue as much as it is taking advantage of a societal weakness. When someone is put on a stage, whether it's in sports, politics, entertainment, whatever, we love people who can get in front of a camera and look fantastic doing what they are doing and saying what they are saying. A lot of times it's transparent, but that almost gets pushed back to the backburner.

[Rockstaru]

Fox News poll says that 82% think McCain won the debate, 16% for Obama...wow, really?

[ByeByeTasai]

I also love that fact that McCain keeps referring to a exit strategy as "losing the war" when the war in Iraq has been considered over and victorious for almost 5 years now by military command. I understand that yes, combat is still happening in Iraq, but we've served are purpose in many people's eyes. Combat is going to happen for the next 200 years if we stay there that long, they can't use that as an excuse any more. And if foreign assistance treated us on our turf like our soldiers treat Iraq citizens we would be leaving IEDs on the roads as well.

[Kuya]

This isn't something fixable by changing american politics...the political machine is irrelevant. Our debates aren't much different than other nations. There's a debate, points are thrown out, etc. It would almost have to be a revamp of the american society and media.

If that's the case, then your country is doomed, and so is mine by association.

[Senoska]

Fox News poll says that 82% think McCain won the debate, 16% for Obama...wow, really?

CBS, CNN, and MSNBC have almost exact opposite numbers.

[ByeByeTasai]

Fox News poll says that 82% think McCain won the debate, 16% for Obama...wow, really?

Surprise surprise. FOX is a 100% republican network, with 82% of it's viewers for news source being republicans. This is not a valid statistic by any means.

[Tyche]

you're wrong about our debates in comparison to other countries. there's lots of examples of inspiring democratic elections (focused on the issues, etc)

And no, Im not wrong here. Where the difference is is in the societal perception of these debates in these other countries and how they see and view their candidates. I've studied and watched countless european debates...they aren't much different that the stateside debates.

[Elvis]

You can go back decades and the same principle strategies are employed. It isn't even with just presidential debates. Open house debates, high school debates, hell, debate classes and books harp on many of these issues. It's not even really the pandering, it's the way the pandering is presented. Debates are almost exclusively about presentation and adaption. Did you notice how McCain pressed the moderator and tried to get away with as much as possible as far as interrupting. McCain acted like he wanted to talk for an hour strait. He probably did. I don't think it's so much an education issue as much as it is taking advantage of a societal weakness. When someone is put on a stage, whether it's in sports, politics, entertainment, whatever, we love people who can get in front of a camera and look fantastic doing what they are doing and saying what they are saying. A lot of times it's transparent, but that almost gets pushed back to the backburner.

i havent seen a debate between politicians in recent memory that was inspiring

however, ive seen inspiring debates between academics. between academics and politicians in fact. chomsky vs richard perle is something everyone should watch.

[ShuttleXpC]

There were a few times McCain seemed to annoy Obama, not with facts but with his absolute stupidity on the subject.

McCain keeps talking about experience, if choosing him let's him make the same decisions he has been making the last 5+ years towards the same broken tactics the Bush administration has gone forward with...I would rather Obama led the country, hell I would rather Ronald McDonald run the country over McCain.

[Elvis]

And no, Im not wrong here. Where the difference is is in the societal perception of these debates in these other countries and how they see and view their candidates. I've studied and watched countless european debates...they aren't much different that the stateside debates.

really? have you seen debates all over the world? really? oh wait just europe? how about latin america?

bolivia is an example. england has a much more lively and open system for debate

[Elmer the Pointy]

The tactic Tyche speaks of was veritably born out of the televised debates between Nixon-Kennedy. Of course, presenting oneself as well-spoken and charismatic was nothing particularly new at the time, but it was the first televised debate, and while the candidates were both strong, Kennedy's outward appearance and image ended up defeating the troll-like Nixon much more soundly than he ever could have on the issues.

[Tyche]

Unfortunately, even in 6+ years of a predominately political college career, I guess we just didin't find time for covering Bolivia debates. Oh lord....poor me.

[ByeByeTasai]

It seems that the majority of the people arguing on the side of McCain, bring as much substance as he does.
USA Today puts the polls at 51% Obama, 45% McCain, 4% undecided. This is probably pretty accurate give or take a % or two.

On a side note, listen to Ralph Nader's campaign commercial portraying both candidates as parrots and you will have nightmares for a week.

[Elvis]

you dont need those credentials to WATCH televised debates or read literature/coverage. its history not physics

[Maxxthepenguin]

really? have you seen debates all over the world? really? oh wait just europe? how about latin america?

bolivia is an example. england has a much more lively and open system for debate

If we took the english system, we would likely have our political debates end in a true brawl.

[Tyche]

I think my bookshelf would agree with you.

[Hiro Lionheart]

Anyone know of/found a link to a full video of the entire debate? Only been able to find bits/pieces and highlights thus far, and would like to view the entirety of it~

[Orph]

After the debate, one guy on fox said something of the likes that Obama calling Mccain John instead of Senator Mccain was noticed by everyone and was disrespectful.
The guy next to him said "I didn't notice that at all"