House to Vote on Bailout Fri, Write Your Reps.

[Correction]

Yes, i understand the ramifications of all of this, and i'm willing to watch the economy fucking tank so it can be rebuilt from the ground up. It's the people that are in charge of the banks atm that are tanking the economy, so why should they be rewarded by keeping their fucking jobs?

You realize that that if the economy tanks it's not just the millionaires you despise so much who will suffer? Businesses will tank left and right and suddenly that guy who desperately needs that $18k/year job cleaning there won't have two dimes to rub together. But I suppose your moral indignation is more important than that.

[Zosi]

You realize that that if the economy tanks it's not just the millionaires you despise so much who will suffer? Businesses will tank left and right and suddenly that guy who desperately needs that $18k/year job cleaning there won't have two dimes to rub together. But I suppose your moral indignation is more important than that.

Don't worry Correction, I'm sure her job is safe, even unemployed people need fresh donuts.

[Gwynplaine]

The line that Bush and Paulson are trying to cram down everyone's throats is flat out stupid, and I can hardly believe everyone including the media is swallowing it. Especially after 8 years of idiocy, that they suddenly have no trouble trusting him is so stupendous. They are doing a fair job if disarming decent people insisting that they act now, and think later.

In my opinion there are 2 reasons that credit is tight right now, and it's certainly not because these companies need their worthless junk bought by us. The first is the mere possibility at all that the government may pay more for junk mortgages is making everyone hold out until the decision is made. In the absence of this option, their only choice would be to go bankrupt, and get whatever they could. The second is that recently the Fed made it so getting money from the Discount Window is anonymous. This makes it so banks no longer know who goes to the Fed to borrow. They cannot know who's good to loan to and who may be in financial trouble. Why should the well run companies take a total shot in the dark with their inter bank lending.

A superior solution to all of these problems would be to simply remove the temptation of the bailout bill, and let the badly run banks go bankrupt. That way capitol will begin to reallocate to the well run companies, and justice is served because innocent taxpayers are not footing the bill. In addition the Fed should once again make it known who's borrowing from the Discount Window, as well as lifting the ban on short selling. In this fashion the only people who lose out are the poorly run banks, their investors and shareholders. In case it isn't obvious that is how the economy would normally work on any other day unless the government arbitrarily decides it needs to politicize for it's own good.

Some sources:
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...ust_capit.html

"There has always been a stigma attached to borrowing directly from the Fed and for good reason. If a bank can't get other banks to lend it money, that tells the market something about the condition of the bank in question. Last August, Bernanke convinced three large banks to borrow at the discount window in an effort to remove that stigma. When that didn't work, he concocted a scheme to allow banks to borrow from the Fed in anonymity via a mechanism he called the Term Auction Facility. When Bear Stearns blew up, he added the Term Securities Lending Facility for investment banks. By removing the stigma of borrowing from the Fed and hiding the identity of the borrowers, Bernanke removed important information from the market."

http://crucibleandcolumn.blogspot.co...s-no-good.html

"By implying that it will [meddle in the market], government actually impedes the free market from functioning as it should since distressed bank management are hoping to preserve their operations through government action, rather than lose their banks in recapitalizations. It should reduce taxes; capital gains, corporate income, and personal income. In so doing it will encourage the influx of capital and stimulate liquidity and healthy economic functioning. It should clear bureaucratic barriers to bankruptcy and receivership so that these mechanisms can function as quickly as possible.

"

http://www.minyanville.com/articles/index.php?a=15185

"The Discount window is really the Payday Loan shop for banks, although the lending terms are far more attractive than Payday Loan terms. The problem is, who wants their neighbors to see them standing in line at the Payday Loan shack?

So how does this relate to today's Global Coordinated Liquidity Injection? Simple, the Fed has moved the Discount window terms behind a fire wall of sorts so that banks can obtain similar amounts of money, under similar Discount window terms, using identical Discount window collateral, but under conditions of anonymity.

[Vedder]

This has been happening for years; this is not a new concept in the American Economy. This bailout does not fix ANYTHING, and it's just a finger in the dam that is about to break.

EVERYTHING has been happening FOREVER... the pressures to small business and students are happening MORE now than ever before. Way toss a generic statement out there as the counterpoint to the facts.

I'd love to see an economy rebuilt from the ground up.

Put Elphaba in charge, you'll come crying back to England asking us to take over again.

And this made me lol, primarily due to the poor judgment displayed by Elphaba in the past, which was obviously your point.

[0ni0n]

People who oppose the bailout need to realize that the bankers who created this mess are most likely millionaires and sitting pretty while the average mid-class americans suffer from a potential depression or recession at the very least. The bailout is beneficial to a lot of americans in the sense that it will keep the remaining banks afloat and businesses that borrow from banks operational. In addition, the revised bill is supposed to contain some provisions and clauses that put a cap on executive compensation (golden parachute and the likes).

Furthermore, I think the bailout is shadowing what's happening in other parts of the economy, namely all time low retail sales, durable good orders, and home sales, and record high unemployment. If this trend persists for another month, I am sure an interest rate cut will be forthcoming.

[Tyche]

I heard the House is 15x - 12x right now in favor of passing. At work, so can't confirm.

[Tyche]

I heard the House is 15x - 12x right now in favor of passing. At work, so can't confirm.

Edit: As long as no members who passed the last bill doesn't switch their vote for this bill, the bill will pass.

Edit: I quoted instead of edited

[Gwynplaine]

It passed roughly 260 to 120 or so. Grats on your share of junk everyone.

[Arnwulf]

On the plus side, we all get to own a piece of any bank that uses the money (part of the Senate package).

[aurik]

Because clearly its the banks' fault that they received political pressure to grant subprime loans to lower-income citizens who wouldn't normally qualify otherwise, and who still didn't actually qualify for the loan once the subprime period expired.

Nah, this isn't the root cause. The root cause is allowing people to package up insured loans into opaque packages that nobody could understand. Then, eventually, they got used to insure themselves, so when the insurance became needed...whoops.

Of course, it needed a big triggering event, and that's what the whole housing crisis (which by-and-large is NOT caused by the CRA, that's just idiots playing to racism), in combination with predatory lending practices, did.

What main street people don't get, is that these packages were considered extremely safe (ratings agencies gave them AAA ratings) and extremely profitable so these investment banks pretty much had a fiduciary duty to investigate them and invest in them. It's not that the banks fucked up, it's that the market fucked up and the banks pretty much had to follow the market off the cliff.

[Gregorio]

So would now be the time to max out all my credit cards while goods are cheap so I could lock in all that good cheapness at a low interest rate?

[Rivieras]

Well it was good knowing you guys; brb need to start making my Molotov Cocktails and making sure my ammo is good to go. It's going to be a fun ride soon enough :D.

I can't wait for this to flop and we find ourselves in the midst of a Depression, because that's where we will be soon enough.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Because the government can never do anything right, of course.

Ever.

[Gregorio]

Because the government can never do anything right, of course.

Ever.

Can't tell if that was sarcasm or not...but no, it can't.

[Rivieras]

Because the government can never do anything right, of course.

Ever.

This regime you mean?

[Maxxthepenguin]

Can't tell if that was sarcasm or not...but no, it can't.

Well then, why do we even have one? Let's revolt and show that darn government that has somehow, by pure luck, survived and enabled flourishing how to really run our country! Lets grab our AK-47s and take those fuckers down.

[Maxxthepenguin]

This regime you mean?

Bush has a pretty spectacular record of failure but even the Bush Administration and our current shackled congress can actually do things right once in a while.

[Seraph]

Bush has a pretty spectacular record of failure but even the Bush Administration and our current shackled congress can actually do things right once in a while.

"Even a blind squirl occasionally finds a nut" isn't supposed to be that encouraging of a concept. >_>

[Rivieras]

Bush has a pretty spectacular record of failure but even the Bush Administration and our current shackled congress can actually do things right once in a while.

I don't think I've laughed at anyone harder in my life and I almost cried seeing this bailout "No Banker Left Behind" pass. But then again I'm one of those nuts that doesn't believe the Constitution isn't a "Goddamn Piece of Paper" <<<< Bush Quote

How does it feel to also own FOREIGN junk assets as well? I know I'm peachy.

[Gregorio]

Well then, why do we even have one? Let's revolt and show that darn government that has somehow, by pure luck, survived and enabled flourishing how to really run our country! Lets grab our AK-47s and take those fuckers down.

You're right...they government has done just a super job so far. Lets just keep printing money based on an imaginary value and throwing it at the problem...that'll clearly help.