RP'ing your FFXI Char

[Yugl]

I would like some fucking discounts on imperial currency for getting the captain rank. It's kind of pointless for the NPC to point out your rank if you're not getting any benefits. "You're a Captain! You get the same treatment as a private first class!".

[Eruantalon]

The term "Role Playing" is misleading for video games since there is no role playing. Much of how a character acts and reacts in the game setting is based on their personal history, background, and personality. This isn't true in FFXI or many other RPG video games. Some games come close like Morrowind and Oblivion, and others like FFXI are far from it. I never played Neverwinter Nights so I'm not sure how close that came to role playing.

As for NPCs reacting you all "mushy", just think how celebrities must feel when every time they go to a store, everyone recognizes them and gets all mushy. The same would be true of your character depending how well known they are. Since there is no freedom to act in a good or bad way (with regards to the game, not to other players which affects your reputation), there's no sense of infamy or fear from NPCs, only good deeds you've done.

Think about it like the old west. People out in the west when they heard your name and the stories of what you've done, they would hide in their stores, or at the very least be incredibly nervous around you.

The whole point is that because it's called an MMORPG, people see RPG and think it's ok to role play, even though the game does not accommodate that aspect. While single player RPGs may be different in terms of allowing your character to drive the story/game, MMOGs are merely large chat rooms, and not everyone comes from a true role playing background and understands the acting. If you think of the game in terms of a chat room, people who play the game don't expect you to not act as the person who you really are. Most people would take the act as lying and feel betrayed. Also let me remind you that role playing in FFXI is playing the role of your character (which is limited by the game), and not acting as someone who you are not (18/f who plays FFXI, really 25/m just to get free stuff). In terms of people who lie about who are they shouldn't be confused with someone who acts the role of an elvaan, mithra, taru, galka or hume as if they are living the world of FFXI complete with its history, geo-political struggles, wars, racial problems, etc. That would be role playing which I can only imagine could be done in link shell with other people who are role playing the same.

Now that I think about it, it would be interesting to play FFXI from the very beginning strictly as role playing. You wander around and happen to talk to a guard who offers you a job, so you tell all you meet up with all your companions and tell them to talk to the guard about the job. I guess the game to a certain extent would allow role playing, but that's not how the game is played. Can you imagine if elvaans were racist against taru that any group wouldn't invite your taru solely because the person playing the elvaan is correctly role playing? The game is built around everyone working together regardless of how the game may contradict itself about how its world works.

Off to a meeting. Sorry for the rambling.

[Thistle]

Maybe your character does grow, but NPCs don't react accordingly.

"PS2 limitations".

I know it's a joke, but in this case the logic applies (that it's a game played by how many thousands of players at different stages of advancement, how could every NPC be customized to every possible level/fame/whatever?).

More than character developement, the lack of physical development bothers me. My character looks like a young man, but I've been playing him for going on five years now, so he should look very different. If nothing else, why the heck does he never grow a beard? Why does he look the same as DRK 75 as he did when he was just starting out? He should have a lot more muscle mass...

[_chuchu]

NPCs mean business

[Thistle]

NPCs mean business

Only the ones who buy and sell stuff.

[Kohan]

The term "Role Playing" is misleading for video games since there is no role playing.

Several months ago, I engaged in an argument with someone over this very topic. Having been around long enough to know that pen and paper pre-dated digital roleplaying (how couldn't it?), I would argue that your statement is incorrect--in a way. If anything, the pen and paper roleplaying you refer to is an evolution of the genre, while relatively linear RPGs are far more truthful to the original source. I'll explain why.

When roleplaying started officially involving several people and a Game Master, it was normal for said GM to plan out a specific path for the players to follow. Although the actions of the players within this game would alter how they reached their destination, the overarching plot, goals, and thus general limitations were already set by the GM. Normally, they were not very flexible, especially when the earliest rule sets were really just that--rule sets--and guides on emphasizing story over set roleplaying mechanics didn't yet exist.

A game like FFXI is hardly any different. The aforementioned sort of table top game could, in fact, be played fully without any form of roleplaying at all. That was part of the fun for most people, but it was in no way required in order to accomplish the goal of journeying from beginning to end. Likewise, every mission and quest in FFXI can be accomplished by a group of players who are taking their chances with an invisible yet very real "digital roll of the dice," every single time they attack, take an attack, try to get treasure, and so on, so forth.

Now, while those players are accomplishing these goals set out by their GM (SE), can they roleplay amongst themselves? Yes, they can. While it's true that they can't conjure up actions for their characters to take which the game does not allow, there were plenty of GMs back in the day who would not permit very off-the-wall actions by the participants, and I am sure there still are now (I haven't set foot in a roleplaying room in years).

However, these FFXI players can still decide which actions they do take from a large list of them (one which increases as they level), and once again, the success of the skill used is determined by a roll of the dice. Be it a spell (hitting hard or being resisted), an attack (a hit or a miss), a cure (will the enemy's luck win out over the person you're trying to save and make you too late), or anything else, it is never guaranteed that you will be successful. There is an element of chance in this digital world. Player skill in FFXI can increase their chances of success, just as how a roleplayer in the physical world can be a master of rolling die and get better results.

Multiple attempts at the same game setup (e.g., repeatedly attempting a mission, or going after a specific mob) would be possible. Its reconstruction is automated since the "GM" designed it once and all you have to do are meet some conditions to start it again, but it is still very much a set series of events which affords you, the player, just enough freedom to be yourself, yet still sets some restrictions that you must abide by.

And if they wished to, all of those players fighting a mob could be roleplaying their actions, either through macros, their in-game discussion, or whatever they chose. They could even do it via VOIP if they wanted. Then again, they wouldn't have to. Neither would people engaging in a tabletop game. They could just keep track of things per usual, roll the dice, accomplish the goals set out by the GM and eventually emerge triumphant (or lose).

Meanwhile, games which allow full sandbox exploration which wildly affects the outcome of an entire gaming experience are far, far different than their tabletop ancestors. With a greater emphasis on story and a much smaller focus on chance and rules, they are far more freeform, almost like a simulation of life within a fantasy world rather than a simple game based in one. Chance doesn't decide whether you can destroy a door or not--you attack it, and it goes down. Chance doesn't tell you whether you can slap someone--you decide to do it, and it is done. The more sandbox-like things get, the less traditional they become, usually only falling on any old school roleplaying rules for combat and not much else.

When I argued this last I did a much better job, but I believe you'll understand what I'm getting at. I just woke after staying up quite late last night and can't think of a better way to say it all.

[arshesney]

I never compared tabletop and videogames RPG, MMOs and single player alike.
It's like comparing apples to oranges, I played tabletop RPGs a LOT (from the real D&D (basic set ftw!) to AD&D, Cyberpunk, World of darkness, and a hella lot more xD) and no videogame would ever come close to the atmosphere, mood and experience and even challenge tabletop can offer.

Sure I like to find role-play elements while playing, like thinking to fight for my nation in campaign or for the empress in besieged, I can also act for a short time in LS chat, but it stops there.
I met people that RPed their characters, like mithra "speaking" with trrriple rrr in their sentences, or tarutaru that talked like NPCs, and I confess I used silly RP macros in the dunes (lol), then realized that it is not what the game is about.

I have no problem with people doing that, and kinda like it, after all it's a game, meant to have fun playing it. As long as you aren't a dick or a retard.

[Kohan]

I never compared tabletop and videogames RPG, MMOs and single player alike.
It's like comparing apples to oranges, I played tabletop RPGs a LOT (from the real D&D (basic set ftw!) to AD&D, Cyberpunk, World of darkness, and a hella lot more xD) and no videogame would ever come close to the atmosphere, mood and experience and even challenge tabletop can offer.

Even so, how a game makes you feel doesn't change its properties. Just as tabletop rules and regulations come from a book, FFXI's comes from its code. Technically, FFXI is an online roleplaying game, not just an online game. It has all of the properties of tabletop RPGs, executed in digital form. That's what my argument was about.

One can argue that they don't view MMORPGs in the same light as pen and paper RPGs (such as in your post), and that's fine. I understand completely. However, they cannot say that the former isn't an RPG at all. It is. It meets all of the criteria, including the opportunity to roleplay if you wish (without making it a requirement).

If anything, modern sandbox games like the aforementioned Elder Scrolls series are much further away from the stricter origins of roleplaying.

[Eruantalon]

The freeform ability provided by sandbox games is more intune with original PnP RPG I played. It would all depend on the GM you had. Some GMs will force you to follow the path from point A to be point B to kill a monster, or other GMs will let you go about your business how you will and eventually you will reach your destination even if you do other quests in the meantime.

My main point is that while you can role play in a Videogame, it's not promoted as such by the majority of MMO(RP)Gs. This means that you calling for help from Altana to smite your enemy in the dunes will get you yelled at because it's annoying. However, in a true RPG, you would be playing in character. The fact that role playing is not promoted leads people to questions as stated by the OP of is it ok to role play in a MMORPG. The answer is yes to truly role play, however, it's not widely accepted or understood.

I guess I worded it incorrectly in saying "there is no role playing in an MMORPG". What I meant is the vast majority (98%?) don't role play, and many would find it weird, strange, or annoying.

If you go to "church" but 98 people sit around and talk about different things, play board games, eat snacks, etc, but 2 people are in the corner trying not to disturb anyone talking about God, and, if overheard, get weird looks, are you really going to church? It meets the requirements of being in a cathedral, has pews, a pulpit, some crosses, but the vast majority isn't there to actually worship. This is the misconception of MMORPGs. It has basic elements, and a world for you to explore based on an RPG, but there is no role playing (ie, you acting out the character). So I guess if an MMOG meets the minimal requirements to be considered an MMORPG, it can be called such, but don't expect there to be any role playing or wide acceptance of role playing.