NHL Season 08-09

[Norelco]

But the Sabres still have a load of talent, and great work ethic.

Heh, are we talking about the same team here? Their work ethic is pure shit.

This team has completely tuned out Lindy Ruff, and Darcy Regier (their GM) keeps getting the team non-impact players while losing talent like Drury, Briere, and Brian Campbell. He overpays for the players we actually do keep. Tim Connolly doesn't deserve 4.5 million dollars. He's completely injury prone. We can't even get rid of Maxim Afinogenov...no team wants to trade for him.

This team has had the problem for years, even with the three guys I mentioned above, of playing a full 60 minute game. It seems they let up one goal and their whole game collapses because they're upset.

Their back to back Eastern Conference title appearances had more to do with luck. When the NHL came back from the lockout no team in the NHL was ready for a small, fast-skating team like the Sabres. After 2 seasons every other team has learned how to play against them. They just found bigger and faster skaters to play the trap.

[Sepukku]

To the Canadiens fans out there - whats up with Andrei Kostitsyn, hes been ice cold for over a month and its fantasy playoff time. Im considering dropping him for Briere, whos already put up a PPG, PPA, and 4 PIM so far tonight through 2 periods vs NJ.

[Ratatapa]

I don't know what's happening to our players

All i know is that the rumor for Vinny Lecavalier is back up from the New york guy

[Ishido]

Horseshit officiating gives the Wings a loss. I love instantly whistling a play dead even when the goalie clearly doesn't have control of the puck.

[Vaspinne]

Horseshit officiating gives the Wings a loss. I love instantly whistling a play dead even when the goalie clearly doesn't have control of the puck.

Considering my team won, I love it too.

/douche-mode-off

[Sepukku]

I find it amusing that someone from COLORADO is so grumpy over the Detroit Red Wings losing.

[Ishido]

I find it amusing that someone from COLORADO is so grumpy over the Detroit Red Wings losing.

Not from Colorado, just go to school there. I take a lot of enjoyment out of the comments I get wearing Wings shirts around.

[Thoronas]

Ugh, Vancouver's collapse yesterday and the flames winning today make it very hard for Vancouver to catch Calgary now. Goddammit >.<

[Abraxas]

who was the guy that said Mark Eaton (8 points) was the same as kimmo Timonen (40 points)

[Sepukku]

That was me and I'll own up to it. Kimmo Timmonen is an injury prone piece of garbage. Kimmo Timmonen has decent (but not remarkable) offensive skills but excels more in the defensive zone than offensive. Mark Eaton has decent (at least better than Scuderi, Gil, and maybe even Orpik), but not remarkable, offensive skills but excels more in the defensive zone, as hes a defense-first defenseman.

As for the point gap, Timmonen has all his points on the power play. I'm sure Eaton could get 35-40+ points if he played on the power play blueline all year, passing to Sidney, Evgeni, and co. Kimmo has over 90% of his points as assists, and 2/3 of which are on the power play. He simply passes the puck to Richards, Carter, and co. and gets applauded for it. The only reason Kimmo is there on the blueline is cause Philly lacks any top notch defenseman (Gonchar, Chara, Pronger, Neidermayer, Green, Lidstrom, Rifalski, Boyle, Blake, Bouwemeister, Weber, Streit, etc. etc.) so he gets all the ice time and power play time. The only reason Eaton gets as little as he does is cause the Pens have a solid defensive unit and on the power play unit we've had the services of Goligoski, Whitney, and Gonchar, as well as using Malkin on the point. (Now the Pens have been using more of an Umbrella Power Play with Gonchar on the top middle and the other 4 being forwards with Guerin, Crosby, Malkin, and Kunitz)

Mark Eaton:
3 G, 5 A, 0 Power Play Points (averaging 17-18 minutes)

Kimmo Timmonen:
3 G (no more than Eaton despite having many more shots), 37 A, 26 Power Play Points

Kimmo has on a 1-10 scale, a 6 or 7 in skill, but because of the situation he's put in, his numbers make him out to be an 8 or even close to a 9. Eaton has a skill level of 6, but because of the situation he's put in, his stats make him out to be a 4. Timmonen is not a remarkable player, he does not have the offensive skill that Goligoski and Gonchar have; he simply passes the puck to Jeff or Mike and picks up a secondary assist and gets applauded for it, then when he gets hurt in the ECF with a blood clot of all things, all the Phail-adelphia fans cry as if they just lost Tom Brady or Lebron James and they absolutely can't win without him.

[Abraxas]

you think Gonchar is out of Timonen's league. sorry to inform you, but Timonen is considered one of the elite defenseman in the NHL. (for the record, yes im from philly and yes im a flyers fan, but this was said about him when he was in Nashville)

and Goligoski is better than him? I guess that explains why the Flyers PP is 4th in the league and the Pens are 22nd. if he's so good, why did they reassign him to WB?

he simply passes the puck to Jeff or Mike and picks up a secondary assist and gets applauded for it

2 points on this-

1 - I can see why you said pass it to Mike, but Jeff? hes good, but he doesnt have the offensive creativity that Richards or a Malkin or Crosby has. Carter pretty much shoots the puck. much like Ovechkin , although Ovechkin has shown more passing skills this season.

2 - if you're so quick to take away credit from Timonen for producing on the PP, then you can take away about 40 of Malkin's 70-some assists. half of his points come from that


seriously man, you gotta get yer head outta the pens ass and look more objectively at the game. you cant let the rivalry decide whos a good player and whos not.

to this day when people ask me who the best player in the league is, i always say Crosby. i hate him, but he is the best all around player. he cries way more than any other player, which is gay, but im judging it between the whistles.

if one day the penguins get Timonen, im sure you're mind will be changed. until then, keep comparing him to AHL players

[Sepukku]

Goligoski can shoot it wickedly hard, he'll have a Gonchar type blast in a few more years. Hes also very smart defensively for such a young player in a difficult position to adapt. For a while he was hanging around back and forth with Malkin for tops on the team in +/-. Funny thing is he's a ROOKIE, he only played about 40 games this season, and he STILL has twice as many goals (6) as Timmonen and half as many points (20). Give it time, he will be a great offensive defenseman someday. As for why he got sent back down, its simple. Gonchar came back, GoGo was the only D-man with a 2-way contract, as well as being the youngest D-man on the team. Regardless of how hes doing, he was the only one we could realistically send down. I expect him to play all of next season with us, however.

Kimmo Timmonen is not, however, a top-top defenseman in the league. There are at least 10 other defenseman in the league better than him that I've listed here. The only one I might take off my previous series listed would be Rifalski because of his defensive end play, but its improved a lot this past season. I bet also if we surveryed Preds fans who they'd rather have, Weber or Timmonen, they'd say Weber, hands down.

Timmonen is not a bad defenseman, he's certainly in the top 25-30 and welcome on any team, but hes nowhere close to Norris worthy nor is he worth the fuss you guys made when you lost him vs MTL for the playoffs...

And being realistic and objective. Yes, Gonchar is better than Timmonen. Now thats not even a question. Gonchar has a shot beat by only a few defensemen, he quarterbacks a power play better than any one player has on most any unit I've seen, and he plays very solidly in the defensive end. At the rate hes been playing since he returned from the shoulder surgery, he'd be challenging Mike Green for D-scoring. 6 goals and 15 points in 17 games. I think if you asked what a team would want more, Timmonen or Gonchar, they'd say Gonchar. Timmonen is solid, well-rounded, but nothing spectacular in any one aspect, he doesn't bring a dynamic to a team. Gonchar brings a dynamic to the team, the whole team just seems different when hes around, and when on the Power Play, Crosby and Malkin are not controlling the pace. HE controls it, and he makes it very successful. Timmonen is not a face for the franchise, hes not dynamic, and hes not someone you could say is a staple for the franchises success.

If I had to rank them right now:
(9) Gonchar
(7) Timmonen
(6) Eaton
(6*) Goligoski
With * meaning I see Goligoski making more progress and development over the next couple of years.

[Abraxas]

sorry, but you are really overrating Gonchar. again, Gonchar and Timonen are of equal value to their teams. i dont see how you can say Timonen doesnt bring a dynamic to the team, when they practically got owned by the pens last year. if he was in the lineup, it would have been a different story. you really cant deny that. not crying over spilled milk, just stating the truth. having depth at the D position is really tough in hockey.

yet i still cant understand why youre using his power play production to say hes not as good a player. regardless of assists, primary or secondary, just look at their ranks. the pens have been without Gonchar for most of the year. they are 22nd, Flyers with Timonen are 4th. its more than points. being able to breakout and have a good first pass out of the zone and setup in the zone is what enables a team to score on the PP. that is a dynamic to the game in itself, and obviously one you dont look very closely at. there are certain intangibles that you cant judge with points, that both Gonchar and Timonen possess.

im not implying Timonen is a Norris candidate. he's too overlooked to ever be. but i wouldnt be far off in saying he's one of the more underrated defenseman in the league.

and i didnt mean for this to be a Gonchar vs Timonen debate. i was lol'ing at comparing him to Mark Eaton. that in itself told me you dont really know anything about him, so i guess im not really suprised

off topic - did anyone else see his pass to Carter for the last goal of the game (for the flyers) against Buffalo last friday? you cant teach that shit.

[Ratatapa]

big win by the habs today

[Sepukku]

And Andrei Kostitsyn is off my team. A 6 goal drubbing of the Atlanta Pidgeons and he doesn't even get his name on the scoring sheet. Goodbye. Picked up Briere, seems to be coming back into peak form.

[dritero]

Darcy Hortichuck's hit on Marty Turco tonight was hilarious.

[BadKarma]

Big win for the rangers tonite, boring as shit game though, the trap the wild play sucks

[Sepukku]

How was Clutterbuck's and Avery's fight?

[Colm]

Booo, Canucks won again, back down to 3 point lead.

I was hoping for an exciting division race, but not because the Flames shit the bed on their Eastern road trip. Fuck curling.

[Vaspinne]

I loved Curtis Joseph's quote after the Leafs-Capitals game

“I’ve played long enough,” the 41-year-old Joseph said. “Ovechkin is definitely the greatest player in the game right now, I would agree with that. But I’ve played against the likes of Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux and guys like that. Hopefully that experience helped.”

For those that don't know, he took over for Gerber after Gerber had a bit of a hissy-fit over the Capitals game-tie'ing goal in the last minute of the third period. Joseph shutout the Capitals in OT and then stopped all 3 shootout attempts (well, the second missed the net, but whatever).