Star Wars: The Old Republic Random Question/Discussion thread - F2P

**Dantrag** · 2011-11-17 14:49

End game in the "Vault w/e" looks exactly like a lot of WoW boss fights.

Get to boss > Boss spawns stuff > kill stuff > kill bigger stuff > "secret" boss pops out > ensue fight > hide behind stuff while massive damage aoe is shot out > come back out > hide again > rise repeat

**vrumpt** · 2011-11-17 14:50

patch notes are out for today's build, spoilered for ultra long.

Spoiler: show

**Man0warr** · 2011-11-17 15:25

I'm not even sure we've seen any real talk about the endgame in TOR. We saw that brief demo raid at E3. This whole game is being sold on all this voice work and story while getting to the top. What about the poor chaps that need to get to 50 first? They skip all the cutscenes, the main meat of the game, the whole 20gbs worth, and then what? This game is not for them. Not yet at least.

There's 3 end game raids, an entire planet devoted to level 50 endgame PvP, and I think all the Flashpoints (dungeons) you do while leveling up have level 50 hardmode versions as well - in addition to new level 50 flashpoints.

The 20gigs isn't all level up content.

I'm not sure if SWTOR will cater to hardcore players but those people don't really exist now anyways like they did in EQ. Even the RIFT hardcore raiders are only raiding/repping encounters 3-4 nights a week. In EverQuest during highschool/college we were raiding 6-7 days a week until midnight, and the majority of raid guilds had that schedule.

Hardcore players are such a minority that they aren't worth catering to anyways. If the only players that can defeat your raids/content are hardcore 30 hour a week types and the normal/casual player can't even break into endgame then you aren't going to make money. Yeah it's great for those hardcore raiders but that's maybe 1%.

**Necronus** · 2011-11-17 16:34

Originally Posted by ringthree

The core leveling game is a most a couple of weeks of content. End-game is months and months and is what makes or breaks an MMO.

I realize its more of an exception, but City of Heroes would like to have a word with you. It only recently, after like, I dunno 6 years, got what most people consider an "endgame". Even now with having one, its still not remotely mandatory and some players literally don't even mess with it. (I've played for all but 1 year and I still haven't even touched endgame trials even though they've been for quite a while now). But yeah, I'm willing to write CoH off as an exception, its the only game where max level meant "yay, that was fun, time to go make a new character" instead of "yay, now that I'm max level I can play the real game".

The lesson CoH gives us is that if you provide a game with a billion legitimate, fun, and different feeling character classes/abilities/builds ... then yeah, endgame doesn't have to hold up all of the game on its own.

**ringthree** · 2011-11-17 16:47

Originally Posted by Man0warr

There's 3 end game raids, an entire planet devoted to level 50 endgame PvP, and I think all the Flashpoints (dungeons) you do while leveling up have level 50 hardmode versions as well - in addition to new level 50 flashpoints.

We all know this already. Repeating it doesn't give us a clue to what it is or how balanced the leveling vs. end-game content is.

Originally Posted by Man0warr

The 20gigs isn't all level up content.

I have heard a good portion of that is because of the voice files, which is mostly leveling content. /shrug

Originally Posted by Man0warr

I'm not sure if SWTOR will cater to hardcore players but those people don't really exist now anyways like they did in EQ. Even the RIFT hardcore raiders are only raiding/repping encounters 3-4 nights a week. In EverQuest during highschool/college we were raiding 6-7 days a week until midnight, and the majority of raid guilds had that schedule.

You are making the old assumption that hardcore = addict, and casual = less time played. It appears that SW has a lot of content for casuals that aren't going to play full time AND for the newer definition of casual, which are bad players that don't want to get better, and don't play to raid. We are unclear on how much content there are going to be for good players that want end-game content. SW may be a great game for both kinds of casuals, and even for bad addicts, but if it doesn't have end-game content for those that want it, it's lasting power is not going to be strong.

Time spent in game =/= challenge.

Originally Posted by Man0warr

Hardcore players are such a minority that they aren't worth catering to anyways. If the only players that can defeat your raids/content are hardcore 30 hour a week types and the normal/casual player can't even break into endgame then you aren't going to make money. Yeah it's great for those hardcore raiders but that's maybe 1%.

Good players can get through content very quickly, that's kind of my point. Your definition of hardcore is just someone that plays the game 30 hours a week, which may not be a lot of players, but that really isn't what I am talking about.

**Hyan** · 2011-11-17 16:54

I think if you want a challenging game you're in the wrong genre in the first place.

Even the best players can't exactly avoid mundane shit they have to go through to get to the 'good stuff'. I guess being co-op makes it better but there are so many better games to play for these 'good players' that don't involve 80+ hour 'tutorials' among other things.

That having these kind of players is required for the game to have lasting power is quite an interesting claim though.

**niwaar** · 2011-11-17 18:16

[QUOTE=Man0warr;4894961Hardcore players are such a minority that they aren't worth catering to anyways. If the only players that can defeat your raids/content are hardcore 30 hour a week types and the normal/casual player can't even break into endgame then you aren't going to make money. Yeah it's great for those hardcore raiders but that's maybe 1%.[/QUOTE]

I don't think thats as true as you believe. Simple fact of the matter is that there is less and less relevant endgame content. In the days of EQ and XI, the "gear progression" was not as steep as in any "modern" mmo. Older content continued to mean something for years after its original inception. Content may have become increasingly easier to defeat as strategies and character growth continued to improve, but it was still meaningful.

Sure, the increase in the ease of character growth in these games (lead by WoW's casual friendly stance since WotLK) has forced a decline in the reason to be "hardcore", but the decrease in group AND raid size has done more. Toss in the fact that content has gotten smaller, less interesting and increasingly dull to repeat and hardcore = completing the current tier on heroic/difficult/expert as fast as possible.

You are definitely correct, no game in this day and age can afford to cater to the remnants of the hardcore players and only them. Yet, they do need to cater to these people in order to keep a playerbase. Games like EQ, GW, Lineage, UO, XI, DAoC all had endgames that included MANY paths and many things try and accomplish. If SWTOR can give many methods of character progression it will succeed in the longhaul. If it follows the same path as WoW and Rift then it will do the same thing Rift (and every other recent AAA MMO release). It will spike large numbers in month 1 and 2 and then continually fall off as players get bored with the "same old" end game.

**Zerocool** · 2011-11-17 18:31

Casual vs. Hardcore is more of a mindset than how much you play. You can have somebody that plays 40 hours a week but all they do is stand in town and chat with their guild. Doesn't exactly make them hardcore. I'd consider the guys that only log in 6 hours a week to raid more hardcore than the aforementioned.

And on that same note, making a game accessible doesn't necessarily make it casual either. You can make something difficult and still make it accessible. Some people might think that's a contradiction, but it applies in certain situations. For instance, you can have an easy leveling experience but a difficult endgame. In this case they make it easy for you to get there, but once you're there it's up to you to clear the content. This is where different difficulty modes work well I think. This way you're not alienating the casual players, but still providing something for the more hardcore players.

Personally, I don't think a game has to be all hardcore to retain players. They just need something to keep people coming back. I think game re-playability makes a difference here. Like for FFXI, we could level multiple jobs on one character. In WoW each race had their own starting area and quests, so you could have a new experience when leveling up other characters.

People aren't going to be constantly raiding, so having other activities helps here. Things like mini-games, crafting, PvP, etc. People play MMOs primarily for the social aspect, so if you can provide fun social activities to your players that keep them logging in you'll retain subs. I mean how many subs does WoW have and how many of those people are actually hardcore raiders? If you keep updating your game with interesting and diverse content, and add ways of alternate advancement (like merits) or raise the level cap, you'll keep a lot of people playing usually.

**Agito** · 2011-11-17 20:32

There was alot of game changing nerfs for several classes that were left out of the patch notes.

**Man0warr** · 2011-11-18 00:45

Forums are funny. Last 3 builds its been "this game is too easy". Now its "This game is too hard, I cant solo a elite" because they gave mobs more abilities to use and smarter AI.

Some classes being able to solo elites was dumb anyways.

**vrumpt** · 2011-11-18 01:22

I don't mind if its a single elite and they have to blow all their CDs just to survive. What irks me is when heroic quests are undertuned and you get people just soloing them rather than grouping up to have a little fun. Thankfully it doesn't sound like thats at all possible anymore, even though I didn't really see too much of it last weekend.

**Ezek** · 2011-11-18 01:38

Yeah, that's something that sort of bothered me as well. I soloed the entire elite questline for the trooper (the one on the little island on the starter planet) without much trouble or even using consumables. Granted, I was kiting like a madman but it still felt pretty underwhelming, especially if you can do it at such an early level with a minimal amount of unlocked abilities available.

**niwaar** · 2011-11-18 01:46

Originally Posted by Ezek

Yeah, that's something that sort of bothered me as well. I soloed the entire elite questline for the trooper (the one on the little island on the starter planet) without much trouble or even using consumables. Granted, I was kiting like a madman but it still felt pretty underwhelming, especially if you can do it at such an early level with a minimal amount of unlocked abilities available.

Last time I played the smuggler starter area, I was able to solo this as well. However those quests were around level 7/8 back then and I was like 9-10. The problem with the starting area "elite islands" is the same issue with all "elite islands" had in WoW, after the masses pass it by hardly anyone will complete them because people wont be doing them. In the beta, where there was a ton of people in the area, I couldn't get anyone to group up for it with me.

I agree you shouldn't be able to kill an elite of even level solo, but using all your cds to kill an elite a few levels below you is kind of necessary.

**vrumpt** · 2011-11-18 14:55

NDA officially lifted today. The embargo from the second fan site summit is also lifted, so theres a ton of SWTOR content out there now.

Theres also a lot of info out on the open world PvP zone on Tatooine, Outlaws Den. In summary, its an open world pvp zone with incentives to go there but anybody not in your party is open for killing.

http://www.redrancor.com/news-2/a-fi...law's-den/
http://www.darthhater.com/articles/s...en-impressions

EPIC EDIT: LEGACY SYSTEM IS A GO!

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...5#edit10940945

Hey Everyone,

This build has our first iteration of the Legacy System! At its core the Legacy system is about allowing players to create a family tree of characters. Family is pretty important to the Star Wars universe, with the Skywalker family having one of the most interesting dynamics in movie history. This version is just the foundational components that we will use to build upon in the future. Here are the features of this iteration:
Once your character has completed their Chapter 1 storyline, they will be able to choose a Legacy Last Name. This Legacy Last Name must be unique and is shared across all characters, on all servers - so choose carefully!
Once you have unlocked your Legacy, any and all characters on that server will now contribute to that player's Legacy Experience Points. Much like normal experience points, when you reach certain Legacy thresholds, you will increase your Legacy Level.

We already have plans for how we will expand the functionality of the Legacy System in one of our major post-ship patches. This will include being able to shape your Legacy's family tree, and give you a reward for all those Legacy Levels.

We look forward to reading your feedback on the Legacy System!

--James

fuck yes!!

**Guyverarmor** · 2011-11-18 17:23

Awwwww Yeaaaaahhhhhhh !

**Zerocool** · 2011-11-18 18:16

Sounds like it could be interesting. Gives even more incentive to level alts. And it also kind of explains why they didn't allow surnames before.

**Purrrfect** · 2011-11-18 18:51

So you take your first 2-3 toons down the light side, but then you have an ugly duckling and go dark side with it. Dysfunctional families, GO.

**BadKarma** · 2011-11-18 20:16

I hear this games base reqs are no higher then wows, any truth to this?

**vrumpt** · 2011-11-18 20:46

Originally Posted by BadKarma

I hear this games base reqs are no higher then wows, any truth to this?

WoW:

Windows XP 32bit (SP3), Windows XP 64bit (SP2), Windows Vista 32bit (SP1), Windows Vista 64bit (SP1):

Intel Pentium 4 1.3 GHz or AMD Athlon XP 1500
1GB or more of RAM
NVIDIA® GeForce® FX or ATI Radeon™ 9500 video card or better
DirectX-compatible sound card or motherboard sound capability
25 GB free hard drive space
A keyboard and mouse are required. Input devices other than a mouse and keyboard are not supported
You must have an active broadband Internet connection to play

SWTOR:

Processor:

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 4000+ or better
Intel Core 2 Duo 2.0GHz or better
Operating System:
Windows XP or later
RAM:

Windows XP: 1.5GB RAM
Windows Vista and Windows 7: 2GB RAM
Note: PCs using a built-in graphical chipset are recommended to have 2GB of RAM.

Star Wars: The Old Republic requires a video card that has a minimum of 256MB of on-board RAM as well as support for Shader 3.0 or better. Examples include:

ATI X1800 or better
nVidia 7800 or better
Intel 4100 Integrated Graphics or better
DVD-ROM drive – 8x speed or better (required for installation from physical editions only) Internet connection required to play.

**jmc** · 2011-11-18 20:58

Originally Posted by vrumpt

WoW:

SWTOR:

Pretty damn close considering the time gap.

Thread: Star Wars: The Old Republic Random Question/Discussion thread - F2P

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