Star Wars: The Old Republic Random Question/Discussion thread - F2P

[vrumpt]

his repeated talk of nobody being high level yet is concerning though. I really hope they do something to get people into higher levels to test some of that stuff, rather than wait for them to get there themselves. At the same time though, if they just offer lvl 40 premades or w/e then nobody is going to know their class up to that point.

[Katlan]

So what's the skill tree like? That's all I'm really interested in.

Identical to WoW's. No surprises. Level up training is same as WoW also. You get most of your abilities as you level up and your talent tree solidies your role. It's not like Rift where your talent tree determines everything you get.

What makes leveling up slow is how the game is paced. There is a LOT of traveling and dialogue. I can't emphasis enough how much it plays like a console EA/Bioware RPG. You do a lot of running around, dialogue and stuff and fighting isn't the "main" thing you do while leveling up. There are times when you are going to be grinding quests a lot, but just as many times when you will spend hours just running around and doing dialogue.

I enjoy that different mmo feel, but it won't be for everyone. This isn't a game where you are going to be grinding leveling instances or jiust grinding mobs

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

A. Hell yes. They either have some kind of cheats on in those demos or have things tuned down, because you can get utterly destroyed if you’re at all careless. You gotta be on top of things if you don’t want to die a lot. You can’t just herpaderp your way through the leveling process like in WoW.

yes, yes you can lol, my beta guy is a 25 gunslinger i have died maybe twice and thats just because i decided to try and run through some zones to avoid pointless combat and trailed like 20 guys before my life whittled down.

What makes leveling up slow is how the game is paced. There is a LOT of traveling and dialogue. I can't emphasis enough how much it plays like a console EA/Bioware RPG. You do a lot of running around, dialogue and stuff and fighting isn't the "main" thing you do while leveling up. There are times when you are going to be grinding quests a lot, but just as many times when you will spend hours just running around and doing dialogue.

Ya 1-25 i havent grouped for anything lol. basically like dao with lightsabers to me.....

[vrumpt]

Gabe from Penny Arcade posted his impressions on the beta, he got permission from Bioware to do so.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2011/6/22/

So I was actually able to get into the current friends and family beta for Star Wars: The Old Republic. It wasn’t too hard since technically I do have a friend over there. The tricky part is that Bioware, like a lot of places thinks of PA as “media” and they don’t want media playing it yet. I explained that we aren’t media, we prefer to think of ourselves as “enthusiasts”. They let me in but I had to pinkie swear that I wouldn’t talk about the game here on the site, or anywhere else for that matter. I’ve been playing it for a little over a month now and last week I asked if I could share some of my impressions with you all. It took some begging but finally they agreed and to their credit they didn’t ask to see what I was going to write first. Honestly they had no idea what I was going to say which must have been a little scary considering this is PA, but lucky for them I actually really like their game. So this isn’t a review or anything even close. What I’m playing is the beta and honestly changing all the time. I just wanted to share some of my impressions.

First of all, a lot has been made about the new “fourth pillar” of story telling. Is it really all they are making it out to be? In my personal opinion, yes, it really is a big deal and let me tell you why. In the short time I’ve been playing SW:TOR I have already given more thought to my character than I ever did in all the years I played WOW. I’ve had to make hard choices with my Bounty Hunter that have made me honestly think about who he is and what he’s like. At first I intended to play him as a real asshole but some of the moral quagmires these quests put you in just aren’t that black and white. Do I do what gets me the most credits? Do I stay loyal to the person who gave me the job even it means hurting Innocent people? As a result of all this I have a character that is a hard ass bounty hunter who has a soft spot for people in trouble and children. The only thing I could tell you about my WOW character Dudefella is that he was a mage and a hell of a good dancer.

Of course all MMO’s now are going to have you taking quests but I think the big difference here is that I tend to care more about these quests. I will admit I am not a quest reader when I play an MMO. I click and click until it’s accepted and then read the breakdown on my way out to wherever the wolf bladders are. Playing a class in SW:TOR is like playing a single player Bioware game. People are talking to you and you’re deciding how to respond and making dialog choices. Turning the quests into an interactive experience makes me care a lot more about them. A quest is still a chance to get XP, money and loot but it’s also an opportunity to advance your character towards the dark or light side based on your decisions. In most MMO’s taking quests is what you do so that you can go play. In SW:TOR, taking quests is playing.

Obviously the setting is a big draw for me but I played the last Star Wars MMO and hated it. So just setting a game in the Star Wars universe isn’t enough for me. With that said I was curious if the Old Republic would be “Star Warsy” enough. I mean, we’re talking about 4000 years before the movies. Would that world look anything like the three films we all love? The reality is that I think it’s almost too much like the movies. It turns out that 4000 years before Jabba, the Hutts were still crime lords surrounded by Twi’lek dancers and had a habit of feeding people to exotic beasts. For the most part everything you expect to see in Star Wars is there and it hasn’t changed much if at all. I guess the idea is that the Star Wars universe has sort of plateaued. I could hazard a guess that the constant battle between the Jedi and the Sith have kept the universe in a perpetual state of either war or re-building...but if I said that I would be a huge nerd.

Anyway I can understand why they did it from a design stand point. They want people who are fans of Star Wars to feel at home here. The result is that it’s easy to forget that all this is taking place thousands of years before Luke Skywalker kissed his sister.

I’m hesitant to talk too much about the mechanics since like I said they really are changing all the time. I can say that coming over from WOW, it feels very familiar and I don’t mean that in a bad way. I’ve checked out the basics of most of the classes and they each feel unique. Dropping into cover with the smuggler gives you a whole new action bar similar to popping stealth with a rogue. At level 1 a Jedi Consular can tear a chunk of debris from the earth and hurl it at an enemy. Zapping the shit out of someone with force lightning is just as fun as you think. Firing up into the air with your jet pack and then raining missiles down on enemies does not get old. I will never get tired of slicing a guy in half with my lightsaber and then watching as my character lifts the blade over his head to block a blaster shot from behind without looking.

I don’t want to drill down into too much little stuff about the game but there is one feature I have to tell you about because I think it is really cool. If someone in your party is off grabbing quests while you’re selling junk at a vendor you would have to wait for them to share the quest with you later in any other game. In SW:TOR you get a little message that someone in your party is taking a quest and do you want to join via holoprojector. The first time I saw this I actually said out loud “Shit yeah I want to join via holoprojector!” and sure enough your character appears there in all his or her shimmering blue glory. You can interact with the NPC right alongside your partner. It’s a little touch but believe me when I tell you the game is full of smart little bits like this.

I honestly think they are making something unique and fun here. I’ve enjoyed my time in the beta even more than I expected and it just continues to improve. I’m excited to see what the final product ends up looking like and how people respond to some of its ideas.

[Katlan]

I do have to agree about the quests. Good jedi aren't supposed to engage in relationships... yatta yatta. There is this one quest where 2 padawans are in love and you need to find out if its true. You talk to them... they say they are in love and ask you to lie for them and in return they will give you a powerful crystal for your future lightsaber (this was a noob island quest).

Well.. good choice is to be honest when reporting them to their master, and bad is to lie. I choose light side choice but I was tempted to do dark >.>

But, ya, like i said before, can't knock the story elements of the mmo since its very good. But it changes the pacing of the entire game. Which isn't for everyone. They are blending the mmo feel w/a single player bioware RPG. And what happens at end game when the story elements are gone? Is it going to be fun partaking in RP every time you do the same raid over and over again.. especially when you have that many ppl in your dialogue (assuming its handled the same was as regular instances).

They need more then just a story to make a mmo, there needs to be stuff for end game aside heavy RP raids that will get tiresome after doing them a few times. I'm excluding PvP since I'm talking about PvE stuff. Not only raids, there needs to be other stuff to do aside raids to occupy your time. And since crafting is all about your companion, I don't know how that works. I know you acquire crafting mats and stuff, but it seems like you would just give it to your companion

[vrumpt]

There won't be raid wide conversations with the same NPC, they already said that would be a horrible thing to do.

And i totally agree with end game PvE content. One of the reasons i like FFXI so much to this day is SE knows how to keep churning out end game content that feels different. I mean, its kinda dated, but it certainly WAS different back in the day. I've yet to see anybody come up with interesting end game PvE content since FFXI. Its always just more raids or more dungeons. More of the same game mechanics we've seen over and over and over again. I mean don't get me wrong, they are very fun the first time you go through them, and i love running them, but that kind of content gets old quick. Bioware mentioned puzzle elements to their raids, so i'd like to see how that turns out before i completely dismiss it, and they claim to have not shown all of their 'end game' yet. So we'll see if they have anything at all left up their sleeve.

But the PvE problem is genre-wide, and I can't believe nobody has come up with anything more than what we're all used to.

[Zerocool]

Yeah, hopefully with the puzzles and stuff in the raids it will keep it interesting. I can't see how all these developers can just put out these raids and all it is, is grinding trash mobs and killing a few bosses, and call it content. We need more puzzles and platforming action and stuff in these things. But from the way that they're describing "The Pit" Warzone on Nar Shaddaa, it sounds like they're trying to break up the standards for instanced content. Hopefully that carries over to their flash points and raids as well.

[vrumpt]

erm and sorry to bring up an older topic but i'm watching a video of character creation, theres a lot more customization options than i was led to believe. video is maybe a month and a half old

This is for a Zabrak, aka Darth Maul species

Body Type - 4 options
Head Shape - 13 options
Scars - 7 options
Complexion - 23 options
Eye Color - 6 options
Face Paint - 6 options
Hair Style (in this case + horns style) - 20 options
Hair Color - 6 options
Skin Color - 7 options

i think thats a fair amount of options available, nothing too robust but its not as restricted as WoW's character creator either.

[Katlan]

No, it may seem like a lot, but once you see it for yourself its pathetic. It's the same basic stuff WoW has. Only difference is what... you have a complexion (which is difference face types - so yes, WoW has that) and body type? All those features are super generic, there is nothing stand out about it and they all differ very little. Just as restrictive as WoW's. No slider, no personal customization at all. You just pick through a few presets. A modern day games character customization shouldn't be able to be compared to a 7 year old mmo in any standard.

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

And since crafting is all about your companion, I don't know how that works. I know you acquire crafting mats and stuff, but it seems like you would just give it to your companion

I kinda like crafting in this game because i personally dont have to do it lol. i can just send the lil helper monkeys out and reap the benefits while i go off and murderalize. so to me its not as boring as sitting there and crafting for a couple hours i dont feel like my time was wasted. that being said they need to improve their item crafting recipes a bit because you seem to get better rewards via quests and commendations than you can craft.

[Palin]

Diagree about the grouping, there's a lot of 2+ quests to do. I've had multiple groups at lvl 11 already.

The char customization doesn't seem fully implemented. A lot of the presets are the same no matter what # you choose. I'd give it and the graphics till release to judge.

Coming from FFXIV LAUNCH, I've been impressed with how smooth the ToR beta is.

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

Diagree about the grouping, there's a lot of 2+ quests to do. I've had multiple groups at lvl 11 already.

theres plenty of things to group with, i was just saying theres no need, i did them all solo. which to me defeats the purpose of an mmo.

[vrumpt]

theres plenty of things to group with, i was just saying theres no need, i did them all solo. which to me defeats the purpose of an mmo.

then it sounds like those missions need buffed. feedback people! its why you're in testing.

[Katlan]

Coming from FFXIV LAUNCH, I've been impressed with how smooth the ToR beta is.

It's not fair to judge / compare anything to XIV. That game should of never been released and is the laughing stock of mmo's. XIV is an example of how to do nearly everything wrong in a mmo. That's nothing to be compared to

theres plenty of things to group with, i was just saying theres no need, i did them all solo. which to me defeats the purpose of an mmo.

Dunno how you could do the space station 4 man instance solo.

[Alderaan]

No, it may seem like a lot, but once you see it for yourself its pathetic. It's the same basic stuff WoW has. Only difference is what... you have a complexion (which is difference face types - so yes, WoW has that) and body type? All those features are super generic, there is nothing stand out about it and they all differ very little. Just as restrictive as WoW's. No slider, no personal customization at all. You just pick through a few presets. A modern day games character customization shouldn't be able to be compared to a 7 year old mmo in any standard.

This saddens me and i hope it's just not implemented yet. To sink so much money on a project of this size and scope and to skimp on what i consider almost as important as combat and content seems really silly.

[Man0warr]

There's no way character creation is on the same level of importance as combat and content to 99% of MMO players.

When you have armor on and are usually looking at the back of your characters head for the majority of the time I just don't see the big deal.

It may keep a couple people from buying the game but it won't stop anyone from quitting once their character is made, if the combat and content suck there is no reason to play.

[Rhinox]

[[removed]]

Star wars galaxies to shutdown in dec.

Good news for tor

[Elvis]

I just don't understand the rationale behind limited options if bioware doesn't change this by launch.

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

There's no way character creation is on the same level of importance as combat and content to 99% of MMO players.

When you have armor on and are usually looking at the back of your characters head for the majority of the time I just don't see the big deal.

It may keep a couple people from buying the game but it won't stop anyone from quitting once their character is made, if the combat and content suck there is no reason to play.

this is true(although id still rather have a nice character for this game since im in so many cutscenes) but combat is also meh, the best thing about this game is the (pretty much single player) storyline which is very good and if your a person that likes to play several characters(i always liked ffxi style 1 character all jobs) you'll have lost of stories.

[vrumpt]

I just don't understand the rationale behind limited options if bioware doesn't change this by launch.

There are much better things that devs could be working on though. A very good character creator is appreciated sure but if it means having your game lack in other areas then whats the point? At the end of the day its not a very high priority. APB had a very good character creator, along with cool other frivolous things, and look what happened? Same deal with Aion. Good character creator, horrible game. Then we look at WoW, a few options, best selling computer game ever. I'm not trying to say its ok to only have a few options, and the character creator aren't the reasons those games didn't succeed (there were many external reasons for both), but to somebody who knows jack squat about MMO immersion the choice is pretty clear where you are gonna focus you're money.

At the end of the day, money is better spent refining gameplay and content than character creators, despite what opinions people may have about it.