Star Wars: The Old Republic Random Question/Discussion thread - F2P

[Katlan]

the problem w/ RIFT wasn't even that the 50 instances were super hard or that raiding was Hardcore... it was, to me, the fact that they took WoW and more-or-less copied its end-game grind and raid grind to the T. It was more hard and the grind to get Heroic gear was significantly more extreme. It's like they forgot the fact that most ppl in WoW hate the weekly instance VP grind. I don't mind it on my main since I get it all through raiding, but on alt's it sucks ass and is boring as fuck. Yet RIFT dev's thought mimic'ing everything was the way to go.

And I know a lot of ppl basically felt that they prefer WoW over the same game w/ a different coat of paint and less polish

[Alderaan]

The worst thing a game company can do is release an unfinished game. Getting the game out just to beat other games doesn't work anymore. I take it as a sign that the company has no confidence in their product long term and just want the box sales while they have a window to do so.

Rift's problem is that endgame is made for the 5% crowd, which we knew before the game was released. There's a reason Hammerknell is known as the guild killer. Most people won't even see it, let alone clear it. It stinks seeing guild after guild break due to people not wanting to persevere through it, but it is what it is. It's still fun for those of us that never played WoW, but i see no reason to play it if you have years invested in WoW.

[Lordender]

I haven't really seen any bad reviews, more like people were expecting something different from WoW and feel slighted that they aren't going to get it (outside full voice acting). Ignoring the fact that BioWare said they were targeting the WoW crowd years ago.

This is mainly the reason why I have no interest in this game nor RIFT, the WoW model got stale mid WoTLK, Throwing more story, lightsabers and setting it in the Starwars universe isn't going to be enough for me. I think thats the main reason why SW:TOR is taking as long as it is, Bioware isn't dumb, they're keeping tabs on WoW and Rift and see that the model for all three games is similar in some aspects and its just not doing well so Bioware wants to make sure that not only their shit is firing off on all cylinders but also will have enough to distance themselves from both games.

[Man0warr]

They aren't and can't make any game altering changes this far down the pike. RIFT wasn't different enough from WoW AND it was in the same setting AND it had no comprehensible story at all, can't say the same for SWTOR.

KOTOR3 Online should be enough difference for the majority of WoW players.

[niwaar]

This is mainly the reason why I have no interest in this game nor RIFT, the WoW model got stale mid WoTLK, Throwing more story, lightsabers and setting it in the Starwars universe isn't going to be enough for me. I think thats the main reason why SW:TOR is taking as long as it is, Bioware isn't dumb, they're keeping tabs on WoW and Rift and see that the model for all three games is similar in some aspects and its just not doing well so Bioware wants to make sure that not only their shit is firing off on all cylinders but also will have enough to distance themselves from both games.

That is the fundamental problem. There is not enough to distance themselves from both games. Sure, having a companion makes things a bit "easier" on the solo and small group player. The Crafting system has a few new little tweaks, but at the end of the day, its still 98% the same crafting system as WoW/Rift, you just do not have to sit around and craft yourself. The major differences in the game systems they are touting is group size, story based instanced "dungeons" and voice over. Shrinking the group size by 1 and making multiple character classes able to tank or offtank situationally are not new concepts. Nor are they fundamentally an improvement over the status quo in WoW, Rift and every other Amusement Park MMO. What SWTOR has over Rift and WoW is voice acted "story". Yet what story is there pales when compared to games with non VO cutscenese such as FFXI. The story is there, but the ancillary quests all have VO and 90% of them do not deserve the VO or the act of a cutscene in the first place.

SWTOR isn't an overtly bad game, just like Rift is overtly bad game. They are just the same game wrapped up in different paper with a tweak here or there. There are a lot of things about the original/tbc WoW model that worked very well, what has not happened recently is taking those core concepts and improving on them. People are taking 1 thing that was not there and trying to add it, instead of taking one or two really good ideas and saying "this part of that system needs improvement and I think I know how!"

SWTOR will be released this holiday season, if its not it will be ok, it just will be about as popular as LOTRO. Meaning not as good as it could have been if the game was released finished and at the correct time.

[vrumpt]

Not being incredibly different than WoW or Rift can have its benefits, for example their target audience will be able to jump right in and they will be completely familiar with the controls and the overall game structure. This is an advantage for them since they'll be able to hook their audience a lot quicker. GW2 on the other hand, will need to include extensive tutorials to show everybody how it differs from the norm in pretty much everything, all the way down to the mail (no mailbox, shit gets delivered to you personally via mail bird). Its a blessing and a curse on both ends.

The biggest hurdle TOR will have to overcome is how to convince people to pay for it since it is so similar to WoW and pretty much everybody already owns that, versus spending another $60 on a game they already have. Kinda like my reasoning for not needing to buy another CoD game after i picked up MW2. Idk, i want it but i don't want to pay for it. Maybe after some time they'll go F2P like everybody else is doing, that would be enough for me to dive in again.

[Katlan]

Monthly sub games only go F2P when its on it's death bed. It's a chance to bring in more revenue (even if it's only 5$/month from new players), albeit small, when compared to their small playerbase that they can't sustain

[Ohemgee]

Unfinished or not. This game is starting to turn in to a developer hell if they keep users in the dark. The lack of staging development or a clear goal to set / overcome via a timeline doesn't help us know where they are.

[Man0warr]

Unfinished or not. This game is starting to turn in to a developer hell if they keep users in the dark. The lack of staging development or a clear goal to set / overcome via a timeline doesn't help us know where they are.

No company does this. 99% of the time it would be stupid for them to. It's easier to break promises if you never make them, same reason Blizzard got rid of their In Development page.

They aren't in developer hell, it's a freaking MMO, the game should never be finished. Right now they are trying to finish up the last planet with more endgame and start testing their infastructure for servers and billing.

SWTOR will be released this holiday season, if its not it will be ok, it just will be about as popular as LOTRO. Meaning not as good as it could have been if the game was released finished and at the correct time.

This game has a MUCH bigger base to draw from than WoW did. VGChartz already has SW:TOR at almost half a million preorders, and gaining 20k a week. And that's without a defined launch date.

A shit ton of people are going to buy this game on release, possibly more than the ~1million WoW did initially. They just have to keep people interested, which every game since WoW has failed to do. Even WoW didn't have much at max level those first few months, just Onyxia and MC, but people expect more these days for whatever reason.

[Ohemgee]

All games are unfinished on release

[Gokulo]

An MMO is never finished

[Lordender]

I think its the worst time to release something that can be somewhat comparable to WoW which is the audience SW:TOR targeted by making the game have similarities(not a direct clone) but the model looks somewhat the same while having the Bioware story stamp on it.

WoW is bleeding bad, Irrecoverable if they don't make drastic changes to their formula, I would not be surprised if the next conference call marks the sub drop at 1.2-1.5million+ lost.

I think SW:TOR is going to have strong starting sales and starting subscription numbers for the first few months, the fact its Starwars has a lot going for it but it won't be enough to carry it forever, my theory is it will lack staying power after the hype wears off if it follows too closely to WoW's model. I personally think the WoW model ship sailed in late 2009 before it started to crash and burn. Blizzard did an excellent job hyping cataclysm to sell but it was apparent after the first month after it went live that the more of the same was not going to be enough this time and led to the biggest sub drop the game has seen thus far.

I'm not saying this game is going to be fail or the greatest thing since sliced butter, I'm saying If they followed the WoW model in terms of progression with raids, instances, pvp it will be a tough battle for them to keep subs. I am a huge Bioware fan, I want the game to be awesome but I just see a lot of WoW in it which concerns me to say the least.

[Ohemgee]

Make game kind of like WoW
WoW kinda sucks now
Never release game.

[Katlan]

Wow is definitely not the model you want to copy to the "T" anymore. The main problem is that all these mmo's were well into development when WoW was at its peak and it was what everyone wanted. Then Rift came along and decided to make WoW 2.0 (w/ less polish around the edges) and everyone thought it was what they wanted until they played it.

I can understand Bioware being scared/timid. The only problem is that there isn't much they can do about it now with the game so far in development and having been in development for a huge amount of time. SWTOR may have one of the largest development cycles for a mmo.

[Alderaan]

Such is the problem with 4-5 years dev cycles. Tastes change.

[Man0warr]

WoW isn't dying because of it's model, unless you are referring to the Cataclysm model that is totally different than the previous 5 years. WoW is dying because of stupid decisions by Blizzard - namely the latest talent overhaul and making it so loot from both 10 and 25man raids are the same, thus killing off almost every big guild and destroying the game's community.

The main reason it's dying is the game is 7 freaking years old, people are just tired of the game/setting, and Blizzard has largely given up development on it. Their normally slow development/patch cycle is glacial now, there is literally no reason to play in the 6 months between new content. Blizzard saw this coming way before their customers did which is why all their A-team developers moved on to Titan around mid TBC lifespan, all they have been doing since is trying to prolong WoW's lifespan by slowing increasing the content patches and making raiding even easier to keep more players happy while they rush to get D3 and Titan out.

The model of easy, solo questing and dungeons to level up, and then raiding/pvp at endgame has been and is still viable if you start with a fresh IP/setting and keep the content coming once players reach cap. It helps that it will take much longer to reach cap in SWTOR than it does in WoW/RIFT and that there is actual incentive to play alts.

It's really hard for an MMO to stay fresh after 5 years, no matter what changes are made, people just grow tired of it. Blizzard/WoW was lucky in that after it's prime was over other companies still couldn't put out solid games. RIFT suffered from this WoW fatigue badly, it's way too similar in themes and setting, people just didn't give a shit about it after a month.

[Ohemgee]

FFXI felt the same way. But after a while of not playing FFXI, I realized that I valued the experience I had with friends over the game content.


Actually I just realized that FFXI is still an amazing game that I wouldn't mind playing again.

[Ohemgee]

[[removed]]

Companion video. I WANT A JAWA

[Ohemgee]

IGN also updated an older trailer. Go to the mainpage and click on "Experience the Trailer" note: flash heavy


Even if this game doesn't come out soon, I want more bad ass trailers.

[Katlan]

well now that D3 got pushed back... if they can deliver this before the end of the year it will give em bigger initial sub's.. thats for sure..