Star Wars: The Old Republic Random Question/Discussion thread - F2P

[Zerocool]

In GW2, the whole game is endgame content. It's not going to be like most MMOs where you have a boring grind to level cap before you can do the fun stuff. Like has been said, for the actual end game content it will consist of dungeons, WvWvW PvP, 5v5 competitive PvP, and end game dynamic events, that we know of so far. And on a lesser note, you have a ton of minigames, both solo and multiplayer,in towns with scoreboards and stuff when you don't feel like being serious.

I'm thinking the end game dynamic events will be similar to raids in other games but with obvious differences. It won't be instanced meaning it will be accessible by everyone and will scale accordingly. Which adds to that feeling of "epicness" imo. Also, the ability to have branching paths so it won't always be the same. I mean, we don't know exactly what kind of content we'll have at endgame (though I think they said some of the elder dragons would be end game DEs) and a lot of it is just speculation at this point. But the potential is there and it's at least exciting to think about after seeing their "small" dragons. With SWTOR, we already know what we're getting and honestly it's not very exciting.

[Elrina]

(though I think they said some of the elder dragons would be end game DEs)

From what I remember, there is only going to be the one Elder Dragon in the game initially, and it's going to be instanced. What kind of instance, whether on par with a dungeon or a raid, I don't remember being mentioned. Either way, it can be classified as traditional endgame.

They were careful, however, not to preclude the possibility of an Elder Dragon making an appearance in a DE in the post-release future, however.

[Kuishen]

Based on the past 2 comments by Agito I think he's trolling so don't bother responding to him anymore.

Even if it would be cool, it doesn't really fit in an MMO as anything but a minigame, because an actual space combat simulator would be totally out of place.

Star Wars Galaxies says hi. I know I keep coming back to that but it's because it fucking worked and was fun.

[Dantrag]

Rofl, have fun with your level 1 non existant endgame content.

Have you not watched any of the "heroic" instanced events?

[Man0warr]

Star Wars Galaxies says hi. I know I keep coming back to that but it's because it fucking worked and was fun.

SWG was bad, Raph Koster is bad, SoE is bad.

Triple strike.

[Elrina]

If you want to jump back into the space combat/exploration discussion, I would be more than happy to redirect you to the the previous page. There you'll find a reply I gave you for the weak ass argument you offered up for why Bioware didn't put space combat in, that you just happened to completely ignore.

It's easy to blanket statement that SWG was bad overall (I did so myself a few pages back). The problem with doing so in this instance is that you are replying to the mention of a specific feature in the game with the equivalent of "lolSWG".

Just because the game as a whole wasn't very good, does not in any way mean that every feature it had was bad. Why don't you reply to Kuishen again, but instead of a blanket "SWG is bad", actually explain why you thought the space feature in it was part of what made SWG bad, and what was bad about it. Because otherwise your statement is just stupid and ignorant.

[Kuishen]

SWG was bad, Raph Koster is bad, SoE is bad.

Triple strike.

I've already mentioned several times that as a whole SWG was bad. The space PvP was cash and amazing though so I fail to see your point.

Addendum: You sound like a second grader.

[Man0warr]

If you want to jump back into the space combat/exploration discussion, I would be more than happy to redirect you to the the previous page. There you'll find a reply I gave you for the weak ass argument you offered up for why Bioware didn't put space combat in, that you just happened to completely ignore.

It's easy to blanket statement that SWG was bad overall (I did so myself a few pages back). The problem with doing so in this instance is that you are replying to the mention of a specific feature in the game with the equivalent of "lolSWG".

Just because the game as a whole wasn't very good, does not in any way mean that every feature it had was bad. Why don't you reply to Kuishen again, but instead of a blanket "SWG is bad", actually explain why you thought the space feature in it was part of what made SWG bad, and what was bad about it. Because otherwise your statement is just stupid and ignorant.

I don't know why they didn't put it in and no one ever will, probably just didn't think about it at all. Seems like to me they wanted to make an MMORPG version of KOTOR aimed at grabbing all the people leaving WoW in droves.

None of their other games that take place in space (KOTOR, ME) use the ship as anything other than a place to talk to companions and warp to the next planet -- exactly what it's being used for in SWTOR.

I don't disagree with you, realistic space combat and exploration would of been awesome. But Bioware has never indicated they were going to be innovating outside of the same formula they have been using for a decade and a half. But this company's games are built on DnD combat mechanics and story, not space combat simulators. It's way too late in the game now for them to start over on what their core gameplay is going to be, maybe if you write a feedback report they will include it in Jump to Light Speed expansion :D

[Grey Jorildyn]

Got into beta on Squadron 367. If there's any mmo vets that would like to meet and chat on TS this weekend, lemme know

[Elrina]

I don't know, I just have a few friends that are really interested in the idea of a good Star Wars MMO, and the way Bioware has gone about this just bugs the hell out of me.

I was interested, originally, till I learned more about it. I didn't even play WoW for that long, so I'm not exactly burned out on the mechanics or anything. But the fact that they were unwilling to do anything gameplay wise to set themselves apart is like an enormous lack of faith in their own creative ability. It was such a buzzkill for me being interested in the game, looking forward to some more news about it, then realizing that the devs and designers either had zero control over the direction of the game because of how strict the similarities were going to be, or that they themselves didn't have the faith in their own ability to introduce any new substantial gameplay content. Either way, to me, it meant Bad Things.

What did they intend to do in the future? Continue copying any new content WoW puts out, always a step behind? Are they planning on just continuing this formula to the T? Or do they have ideas for original content that they haven't released yet, planned for future expansions?

There's no way they went into it with the intention of taking the people leaving WoW right now, because they had no way of knowing people would be so tired of WoW at this point that they'd be leaving and not going back like they did in the past. Up until they were too far into development to change course and make any fundamental changes, they probably imagined that things would continue on as they were - people temporarily leaving WoW for new games, only to go back, because the game and gameplay was superior.

They thought to profit off of that by creating an exact duplicate. That way people would have no reason to go back to WoW, because they were already essentially playing the same game.

But they should have expected the possibility that people would tire of the gameplay and want something new. They should have expected that even if they didn't tire of it, that they would still want new content or feel like they were playing something new, and when creating this game planned for it. Had something in the wings that they could throw out and be like, "Look what else we're doing, how awesome this is!"

I mean damn, what if, for example, Old Republic had actual action combat? Along the lines of TERA or PSO2 or something, but with Jedi and lightsabers and blasters and the whole nine yards. Shit, TERA wouldn't even be a blip on the radar of a lot of people if that were the case. But it is, because there are a lot of people just craving something different right now, even if the dungeon/raid models stay the same.

I don't know, but it killed it for me, and I'm not even burned on WoW. There will be people like one friend of mine, who never cared for WoW because of the races/classes/setting and so don't have as much experience with the model, and people who don't mind more of the same as long as it's Star Wars. But I can't imagine it'll be in the same realm of subs EA/Bioware was expecting/hoping for. It will probably do better than any other MMO released since WoW, but I foresee the same issue of losing subs after the first 30-90 days, especially with GW2 right around the corner without a sub fee and TERA after that.

It could go a lot of ways, and I won't deny the possibilities that GW2 might do worse than expected and that TERA might flop here completely. But then we might hear about Archeage coming to the west too, and the possibility exists that Blizzard will start releasing info about Titan, and there will be the people who consider Diablo 3 and/or PSO2 enough once they arrive, and won't want to pay a sub on top of them.

I don't know, maybe we'll be proven wrong and The Old Republic will become the next 10m sub MMO. But I doubt it. I'm just sad that there isn't more reason to be excited about this game, rather than just disappointed with what it isn't.

[Zerocool]

The fact is, they decided to focus all of their time and resources on story. Which, in an MMO, I think wasn't the brightest idea. And while having an interactive, branching story will add to the immersion of your character, most people play MMOs to play with their friends or other people. Now, even that might have been fine if they decided to do something different as far as gameplay goes. Granted, they started working on the game 5 years ago when the current MMO model wasn't quite as burnt out. But, they probably should have seen it coming.

I don't know, I think a big part of the disappointment comes from seeing what games like GW2 are bringing to the table. Before that, we might have believed that they weren't capable to bringing single player level gameplay into an MMO. But seeing what GW2 is doing it really makes you wonder what we've been playing and paying for all these years. It really makes you think of what SWTOR could have been if they weren't worried about playing it safe. But really as time goes on, the "traditional MMO" model doesn't really seem very safe anymore. People want something different.

[Neoscrilla]

On the bright side though, if this game doesnt "kill WoW" or isnt a gigantic success, then perhaps companies will realize that themepark MMOs arent gonna cut it anymore. Its gonna take a AAA title from a AAA developer and a AAA license to fold to get the point acrossed. I could totally see a few years from now the industry calling SWTOR the "last great themepark." I dont want the game to fail, but I more want it to finally show that, while games like WoW and RIFT and SWTOR are fun in thier own way, changes have to be made for the good of MMOs as a whole. The sad thing is though, to get a monsterous amount of subs like WoW did, you have to make your game mind-numbingly easy (the grind), among other things. GW2 is the start of this transition, and if it ends up being viewed as "better" than SWTOR, then I can see things changing alot in the future.

[Ohemgee]

The last 3 pages (superior forum settings) have just been retarded subjective arguments about other games.

D:

[Dantrag]

It's all been related to TOR though.

[Ohemgee]

It's like two New Yorkers arguing.

[Dantrag]

Gives me something to read while I'm at work. Shoosh!

We're just saying we wish Bioware had done something more than World of Star wars. Or Star world of warwars.

[Man0warr]

There's no way they went into it with the intention of taking the people leaving WoW right now, because they had no way of knowing people would be so tired of WoW at this point that they'd be leaving and not going back like they did in the past. Up until they were too far into development to change course and make any fundamental changes, they probably imagined that things would continue on as they were - people temporarily leaving WoW for new games, only to go back, because the game and gameplay was superior.

I misworded, but they basically went into wanting to steal the WoW crowd. Historically MMOs start to decline after ~5-6 years, no matter what the makers do or add, so they had that go off of.

On the bright side though, if this game doesnt "kill WoW" or isnt a gigantic success, then perhaps companies will realize that themepark MMOs arent gonna cut it anymore.

MMOs never "die", unless the company behind them folds. It will always be profitable to have WoW servers running, it's very easy to scale back. Even UO is still trucking 14 years later.

Blizzard has done a pretty good job of killing WoW themselves with their stupid decisions. Like making heroics 5mans/raid content at Cata release too hard (way harder than what people had been accustomed to) for the casual masses and refusing to tone it down until after they had lost a ton of players. Or making 10 mans drop the same loot as 25man raids, which killed all the big guilds and fractured them into tons of little guilds. Oh and they increased their patch cycle even more, to 7-8 months between content patches.

Right now the best guess estimate is WoW is down about 60% of it's North American subscriber base since the release of Cata. But like I said earlier, after about 5-6 years MMOs go into steep decline, people just get tired of the game (if they have been playing that whole 5 years). Same thing has happened to EQ, EQ2, and DAOC.

But I don't think people are leaving because the "model" has failed, as much as they are just tired of WoW in general and the bad decisions that have been made since Cataclysm released. I know people still enjoy raiding and other stuff WoW had to do.

[Ohemgee]

I never played WoW. And Rift was my only window in to a WoW clone (tee hee).

No game can beat the experience I've had with FFXI. But that shit was hardcore as a motherfucker

This game will be fun for me because its casual, I can play it while working at the same time, and I'm somewhat engaged in the story to go at a slower pace.

An MMO is based on end game content, fine. That shit can be added and new content can be made any time after the initial release. Expansion packs, version updates, and in game purchases (premium vs microtransactions is a separate conversation).

When you're pandering to a hardcore audience who exclusively are engaged in raiding and getting end game loot, you are setting up for a piece of shit game a la Rift.

People who see this game are overly familiar with it, as if they want Sweater to be WoW. It isn't WoW, its a WoW-clone. What makes this game accessible knowing that its a clone of another game? Story, PvP, Bioware. I'm sure a lot of the people who know this already said "Fuck it, it might be the same food their feeding me, but I'll know what not to do immediately to make my experience better"

Guild Wars 2 will be great. I'm sure I'll pick it up as well. But will I go out of my way to compare GW2 to Sweater? I'm not that fucking nerdy to break a game down to its mechanic anymore. I want to play an MMO that I can replay and have fun with at my own pace. If I don't get that with SWTOR, then fuck it I'll be able to hop on to GW2 or TERA (last resort Korean BBQ).

@Manowar The WoW model works, and I would play a WoW clone if I knew I would have fun with it. People are seriously grasping at the idea that they don't have a choice to buy both games, that's three months to scrap up $50-60 for a game, why the fuck would you not play the game until GW2 comes out?

Play 3 months of a game, get bored, then try something else.

[vrumpt]

People are seriously grasping at the idea that they don't have a choice to buy both games, that's three months to scrap up $50-60 for a game, why the fuck would you not play the game until GW2 comes out?

Seriously this. Buying one is not some kind of lifetime contractual obligation. Its a video game, and like every other video game you can buy it, play the shit out of it for a little bit and if you start to get bored of it you can go ahead and not play it anymore. The story alone is going to be worth checking out imo.

[Man0warr]

I agree. Me buying and playing SWTOR doesn't preclude me from buying and enjoying GW2.

MMOs these days aren't something you need to be subscribed too the entire 12 months of the year - you can put it down and come back later. It's not like EQ or FFXI where if you aren't always playing you get more and more behind the other players.

If SWTOR is nothing but 60$ for a month (first month free) and all I get out of it is KOTOR3 Online, then it was worth it to me. I dropped 60 bucks on Deus Ex a month ago and that lasted all of a weekend.