Dynamis - sharing the love

[Eldelphia]

Just completed 12 runs with a new dynamis shell that I set up at the end of July. Shell is doing nicely made of members of my main shell and friends. Lots of wins, the drops are ever increasing and we've seen good currency. There's a lot of experience sprinkled throughout the shell thanks to previous shells mixed in with some complete dynamis newbies who have just completed Beaucedine access with us.

The shell is profitable /cheer. We recently ran a Bastok again for someone who needed a win and let people lot the 11 wootz that dropped because the bank is healthy.

We're not currently considering upgrading because I don't think right now, any of us have a realistic chance of making up the currency. We run once a week - and even if you joined another shell for a midweek run, I'd guess you still need to be able to make 1-2 mil a week right now to get a relic in a year if you're not a member of a gil generating HNM shell.

And personally, I'm a career WHM, not BRD >.>

So, we're looking for a way of distributing some of the profit to members without too much drama. Our current thinking is to just allow sponsorship. People can group together with a friend to fund runs and all walk away with some gil in their pocket. I was considering using the gil to upgrade the main shell members gear but a) not everyone can or does come and b) we have good members from outside the main shell who do.

So, for those of you who do this - how do you split your profit or manage sponsorship?

[Wizerd]

Just completed 12 runs with a new dynamis shell that I set up at the end of July. Shell is doing nicely made of members of my main shell and friends. Lots of wins, the drops are ever increasing and we've seen good currency. There's a lot of experience sprinkled throughout the shell thanks to previous shells mixed in with some complete dynamis newbies who have just completed Beaucedine access with us.

The shell is profitable /cheer. We recently ran a Bastok again for someone who needed a win and let people lot the 11 wootz that dropped because the bank is healthy.

We're not currently considering upgrading because I don't think right now, any of us have a realistic chance of making up the currency. We run once a week - and even if you joined another shell for a midweek run, I'd guess you still need to be able to make 1-2 mil a week right now to get a relic in a year if you're not a member of a gil generating HNM shell.

And personally, I'm a career WHM, not BRD >.>

So, we're looking for a way of distributing some of the profit to members without too much drama. Our current thinking is to just allow sponsorship. People can group together with a friend to fund runs and all walk away with some gil in their pocket. I was considering using the gil to upgrade the main shell members gear but a) not everyone can or does come and b) we have good members from outside the main shell who do.

So, for those of you who do this - how do you split your profit or manage sponsorship?

Meh, I just finished typing out an entire post and then the forums thought I timed out and made me relogin and the post wasn't here anymore.

Basically I was saying that it takes our linkshell 6 months or so to upgrade a relic through sponsor, maybe 8 months for a smaller LS.

As for an answer to your question, I basically explained a system where you split the profits from singles based on who was at the run where the singles dropped, and split the profits from hundreds from attendance throughout the month (so's not to screw people who have bad luck for when hundreds do drop).

I can type it out again if you don't know what I mean. An example I came up with said that in a good LS with ~30 people per run, one person would make almost 900k in a month if they showed up to all the runs and the guy who skipped the three cities would only make 480k~ in comparison.

[Eldelphia]

From the posts of the drops you've made though, I think your shell is in another league Our success is accelerating but we run 25 peeps once a week and I don't see us upgrading a relic right now.

I think your numbers are going to be far, far higher than ours, although I'm amazed at how much more we kill than my old shell in certain zones.

Do you have a link to your ls site for dyna? How many people do you go with? What are your currency drops like?

As for an answer to your question, I basically explained a system where you split the profits from singles based on who was at the run where the singles dropped, and split the profits from hundreds from attendance throughout the month (so's not to screw people who have bad luck for when hundreds do drop).

Yeah I like that you split the two. We were thinking about doing something similar over 12 runs but I think 4 is more realistic.

[Zubuis]

Our Dynamis shell (Dynapowpow) just maintains a 1.5 mil bank at all times. Used to be 3mil but we made it 1.5mil because of the reduced glass cost. Basically a 3 run buffer. We just maintain a 1.5mil bank incase we do alot of cop runs or tav runs or whatever and dont make alot of profit.

Everything past the 1.5mil, shellholder just sells the currency and splits the gil to those who attended.

We split it about once a month on average. Depending on how much profit/attendance there is sometimes its split based on who attended or sometimes its split based on who went to at least half the runs.

The pro's to doing it like this is that everyone benefits by getting some amount of gil rather than just 1 person getting a relic. I think it also improves attendance because the gil factor can influence better participation especially when its hard for some people to make gil nowadays. So even if people have no more af2 to get they can still do dynamis monthly and pick up a extra 500k for their efforts.

[Lordwafik]

Make sure if you do go sell/split route , get a list of names BEFORE the run, I can't stress this enough. Otherwise be something like : Dynamis Sandoria with a total of 800 coins fapfap - 29 people want to help split. Xarcabard with a total of 82 coins - 8 people put up their hand to sell/split.

[Eldelphia]

I think we want to decide on a route now so that we can open this up and benefit others. I don't really see myself going through the hell of upgrading and I don't see us doing well enough to cut it down to a short enough time yet. It might get that way but then if the profit is nice enough, you'll do fine out of it.

Sponsorship would be nice and easy but we only run once a week which means it could take a while before it got around to some people.

[Freysi]

If you maintain an attendance list, you could always just distribute the excess money at the first of every month. Just count total attendance to figure out how much one attendance is worth, and then calculate everyone's salary.

[solsovly]

Make sure if you do go sell/split route , get a list of names BEFORE the run, I can't stress this enough. Otherwise be something like : Dynamis Sandoria with a total of 800 coins fapfap - 29 people want to help split. Xarcabard with a total of 82 coins - 8 people put up their hand to sell/split.

I think you've already been too nice with announcing the runs people can "help" split with. I don't think anyone ever passes "helping" split a city run with us. I would be much crueler.

[Lordwafik]

I think you've already been too nice with announcing the runs people can "help" split with. I don't think anyone ever passes "helping" split a city run with us. I would be much crueler.

Nothing makes my heart sing with more joy than seeing 9 names on sell/split for Xarca/Glacier and then seeing 4-600 coins total at the end.

[Amele]

one thing you could do is maintain a 1 month bank, and on the last day of each month split all gil for that month based on attendance.

this is similar to doing it weekly except it gives you a much larger buffer, making it easier to do weird stuff like 6x outlands in a row if that's how the calendar works out in your time slot, etc.

for you this would be a bank of about 2.5mil probably.

[Eldelphia]

one thing you could do is maintain a 1 month bank, and on the last day of each month split all gil for that month based on attendance.

this is similar to doing it weekly except it gives you a much larger buffer, making it easier to do weird stuff like 6x outlands in a row if that's how the calendar works out in your time slot, etc.

for you this would be a bank of about 2.5mil probably.

We're doing better that but right now its hard to tell what our potential is going to be. Most peeps seem to be favour splitting profit so I think we'll end up going with that. Right now we're paying out some of the gil we made over the startup.

[Vxsote]

I hope your profit-sharing plans are working out for you. A lot of what has been mentioned in this thread is similar to how I run my shell. In Sept. 2007, I took over full leadership of my dynamis shell and changed from sponsorship to self-funding with 100% of profits returned to the members.

To start things out after the switch, another leader and I loaned the shell a total of 5M gil. Our first few runs went to repaying those loans while establishing a 5M gil reserve in the bank. Since then, we have made actual payouts to members totaling over 177M gil, and we currently have a cash balance in excess of 40M (reserve + unclaimed payouts + recent sales). Unclaimed payouts are eventually recycled back into the profit pool, and near the 15th of each month, we pay out all of the profit from the previous month's activities. Member shares are prorated according to total attendance for that month.

In order to make all this work, it is necessary to have accurate record-keeping. I believe that it is also important to make such records viewable by everyone in the shell, so I went through the trouble of implementing a custom website to handle all of our administrative record keeping. Attendance, accounting, and our relic armor lotting priorities (also based in part on attendance) are all fully viewable by any member who wishes to have access.

All in all, nobody gets rich with our system. There are certainly ways to generate much more gil/hr than what our profit turns out to be. But our members keep everything they've earned, not just AFv2, and they do appreciate that.

[Ultimagi]

Use a basic accounting system, keep track of the linkshells expenses and profits. Expenses are easy to track since its exactly 500,000 gil every run, and profits aren't too hard to keep track of either. Just make sure you know exactly how much currency you sell and at what price. Retain some fixed amount of profits to pay future expenses and pay the rest back to the members. You'd have to log each individual payment you make to every member, but once you have a system down it wouldn't be too much work. Also you'd have to decide if you split the profits evenly or divide it by points or attendance.

[Missykitty]

We run completely differently. My shell, DeadParrotsSociety has no bank. I buy the glass each week with my own money. We either split the cost of the glass between those in attendance that night and allow the singles to free fall, or we have a sponsor who will get all the singles at the end of the night.

Since we have so many members upgrading atm, we've had no shortage of sponsors. We set up sponsorship on a tier system. Tier 1 is members upgrading, Tier 2 is members who are not upgrading (I'd assume they are selling) and Tier 3 is nonmembers upgrading who belong to sister/friend shells. This allows people who are interested in upgrading a chance to do so for a much lower cost, and those who are just there to get their relic, don't mind getting in for free. Everyone wins.

[Eldelphia]

I just thought I'd add what we ended up going with. We've been running for about six months now and are doing pretty well.

Because we couldn't identify anyone who had the means to realistically upgrade and because we only run once a week we decided to split profits over a 4 week session.

We had a 12 run start up period, I funded the initial stake and had the ability to fund another 1-2 mil ( we started before the reduction to 500k). On our first run we did incredibly well and got a lot of currency which basically led to the shell being profitable from day 1. Because we weren't sure we were going to able to replicate that and we became aware of the proposed changes to Dynamis, we banked the gil and left it alone.

After 12 runs, we'd done incredibly well. I got my initial stake back and some. All members got a payout and we now run with a 5 mil bank.

So after 5 runs we take the bank back down to 5 mil and split the profit depending on the number of qualifying runs you attend in each 4 week session. We allow people to earn 1,2 or 3 points per run. Your attendance at a run counts as long as you earn at least 2 points from it.

What we're finding is that we're gaining members steadily and the loyalty of our existing members is high. We average 7 relic pieces a run with a high of 15. We've only had one run with 0 drops and that was an impromptu and unplanned Bubu and one run with 1 drop (our first Xarc, PLD + hundred) . Usually we walk out with considerably more.

We ask everyone to choose one main lot job and an upgrade lot job. In cities, anyone with that main job may lot but in Ice, points leaders get lotting priority. Anything unwanted by main lotters is cheap as opposed to free and we're finding this is balancing out well. The only time anything goes free lot is for the occasional bit of fun when we're overwhelmed with multiple drops that no one ever wants and this is only done once every few runs for a laugh.

We were worried with so many people having multiple jobs that it would cause problems but actually it's working really well and people are happy that they can lot other armour very cheaply but it does seem to curtail all out loot whoring. We have some people focusing on long term goals like RDM hat (THE most anticipated piece) and others who hoover up city armour for their 85 different jobs. We also make it relatively simple for people to change jobs. They have to let us know more than 24 hrs before a run and they abstain from lotting for 2 attended runs.

The upgrade lot is for CoP dyna pieces. I can't remember who I stole this idea from, possibly Dynamis Bums directly. This also helps people who have multiple jobs or previous dynamis experience. As long as you're at least 4/5 in the job you want to upgrade, your upgrade lot can be different from your main. We have qualified it so you can't be 5/5 in a job and main lot for your 35 PLD etc...

We have had absolutely NO drama. We have had positive feedback about the payouts and a really nice benefit for me as shell leader is I'm finding zero whining about attending other events in terms of buying meds/reraise/paying for limbus etc etc and people are far, far less stressed about gilmaking. This is especially nice because we're not an HNMLS regularly banking big money drops. We just do limbus, dynamis and some sky/sea.

What's nice is that this also means we rotate zones well and people are happy about it. We've had incredible drops in Glacier which helps but people know even if nothing for their main lot job drops from a city, currency drops are great and they will gain more out of it in the end.

I did dynamis for 3 years ish with my old shell from which I learnt a lot. It didn't prepare me for being upfront on BLM (I was WHM for them) and I knew nothing about the pulls but it did help us hit the ground running. We've messed up but there's not been a run yet where we we've walked away feeling crappy.

http://novadynamis.guildportal.com

[Enedin]

http://www.celestial6.com/images/bastokclear.png

[Eldelphia]

Nice pic, might want to put it in dorp thread or behind a spoiler, came into the thread expecting discussion and that leapt out...

[Enedin]

Our LS splits all coins (except 100s) in the end. Entrance is paid by the LS bank, and we farm Bastok (as seen above) for huge profit. Made like 6M profit on that run alone.

Sponsored runs are not allowed as of now.

[SeleneGaruda]

I've run a linkshell that does Dynamis twice a week for almost three years now. From the start, we made our system as simple as possible. All it takes is responsible people and accurate data tracking.

The glass is initially paid for from a Bank Reserve.

Every Dynamis event, we take attendance. All currency and craft items are collected and sold. Once sold, we know exactly what the profits were for the event (minus the glass) and how many people were there. Simple division determines the split and everyone gets their cut.

Keeping track of all this information, we can calculate how much each member has earned. And then by tracking how much we've given them as time goes on, we can determine who much they are currently owed. We normally do Cashouts once a month.

Our Bank Reserve is funded by acting as an imaginary member for each event. The Bank simply gets an equal cut of the profits. How you initially fund the Bank is up to you. We cap our Bank at 5mil. It's only purpose is to provide a buffer for funding the Hourglass and for the occasional meds that we deem necessary (for DLord).

On paper the idea is very simple. The complicated part is tracking all the info. We've used an excel spreadsheet to do this and it has worked well. We're about the retire the spreadsheet however in favor of a web application that one of our members developed for us.

Oh, and we don't fund relics or allow members to sponsor runs. Our mindset is spread the rewards as evenly as possible. Nothing goes unaccounted for. There's no skimming off the top. All information is open to all members, so if mistakes are made they are usually caught and fixed.

[Eldelphia]

Yeah I'm sure like a lot of other peeps we record everything in a spreadsheet etc. I use Google Docs to publish it and post up the link so everyone can check their points etc. If I didn't fail at databases, I'd do that. We're not doing anything spectacular, we're a small shell which has turned out quite nicely and is slowly growing. I know people are doing spectacular things in Dynamis. I just know when I wanted to set this up, I had a lot of input from others so I thought I'd post up about what we ended up going with. Dynamis really is the easiest way to make gil these days, I expect it'll get nerfed >.>