Drk Merrit: LR Effect or Lower SE recast

[Fryte]

This thread details why so many people think DRK is a useless job. There is no other sub for DRK (outside of zergs) other than /SAM.

Benefits to /SAM:

1. 5-hit builds. Going from a 6hit to 5hit build increases your WS frequency by 18ish%.
2. Meditate. Basically a free WS every 3 minutes.
3. Hasso. 10% Haste, STR, and Accuracy? Sign me up.
4. Seigan. Nothing more enjoyable than watching Pecking Flurry or Rushing Slash get eaten by a Third Eye.
5. Countering shit is awesome.

Downsides to /SAM:

1. Increased spellcast timers on spells you shouldn't be casting. Yes, sometimes you get 50tp from Absorb-TP, sometimes you get dicked and get 10. But with all the Haste and TP you get with /sam, why would you stop swinging to cast? If you gain 50 from Absorb-TP, but miss out on 34tp worth of melee swings (and the damage from those swings), what's the point? Same goes with Drain.

2. /nin offers -way- more unneeded defensive ability. Sure, you can eat a firespit occassionally, or tank for 7 shadows instead of 3-4. But you lose all the other things listed above for 3 more shadows.




As for merits, I went 5 Last Resort recast and 5 Last Resort effect. Typical parties and situations don't warrant you spamming Souleater every 5 minutes (or 6 really). Mages will hate you, not cure you, and then you will die and fall horribly on the parse as you wait for weakness to dissipate. If you find a mage that will cure you, awesome. He still could be using that MP for something more worthwhile like Dia2'ing every mob or curing people who don't fap over their e-peen Guillotine. Also, Last Resort effect is a guaranteed merit. The huge attack boost coupled with Desperate Blows means you output huge amounts of damage for those 30s. And then to have it every 4min10s, it's even better. You can use it every time it's up, practically the moment it comes up. It's also a great hate tool to pull hate so mobs will fall into your trap of Dread Spikes.

[Nameless]

why /nin? are you tanking? most AoE effect from HNM neglect shadows. And if you are afraid of tp feeding and aoe, shouldn't store tp and mediate be your best friends? In most case, I find seigan 3rd eye and a little of mage's attention will get me through if I get hate, nothing a /nin can do that I can't.

[Fwahm]

Detailed example.

You have a Cratio of 1.0, and you use Berserk, pushing your Cratio to 1.25.

Before: Pdif min: 0.70, Pdif Max: 1.20, an average of .95

After: Pdif min: 1.00, Pdif Max: 1.44, an average of 1.22

26.3% increase in damage

You have a Cratio of 1.5, and you use Berserk, pushing your Cratio to 1.875.

Before: Pdif min: 1.00, Pdif Max: 1.8, an average of 1.4

After: Pdif min: 1.45, Pdif Max: 2.25, an average of 1.85

32.1% increase in damage

Finally,

You have a Cratio of 1.6, and you use Berserk, pushing your Cratio to 2.000

Before: Pdif min: 1.12, Pdif Max: 1.92, an average of 1.52

After: Pdif min: 1.6, Pdif Max: 2.4, an average of 2

31.6% increase in damage

[Fryte]

I believe the moral of the story is /SAM and /WAR are the only good damage dealing subs for DRK, however /SAM offers a defensive capability coupled with all the delicious buffs. Easy choice, imho.

[Raen Ryong]

Pdif is not modal the average won't be inbetween its max and its mins so perfectly like that.

It likes 1.0 I believe <_< Amele or someone will know more than me.

[Kaiyoko]

why /nin? are you tanking? most AoE effect from HNM neglect shadows. And if you are afraid of tp feeding and aoe, shouldn't store tp and mediate be your best friends? In most case, I find seigan 3rd eye and a little of mage's attention will get me through if I get hate, nothing a /nin can do that I can't.

Dynamis, limbus, salvage, nyzul, and ein. is the only events I would come drk to and in those events I tend to end up tanking and/or a mob has aoe that can be absorbed by Shadows. I don't like my mages having to take too much hate from healing me if third eye wants to fuck me over.

But in merit, like I said I would use /sam only.

[Fryte]

Dynamis, limbus, salvage, nyzul, and ein. is the only events I would come drk to and in those events I tend to end up tanking and/or a mob has aoe that can be absorbed by Shadows.

Do your warriors have enough MP for Provoke?

[Fwahm]

You're right, it's not completely even; if 1.00 falls between your min and your max, you get it more often. However, that skews it even further in my favor, as once you get past 1.5, you won't get nearly as many low hits that correspond to 1.00.

[Kaiyoko]

Do your warriors have enough MP for Provoke?

They don't voke period in those events.. So yeah...

[Tsuko_Asura]

I believe the moral of the story is /SAM and /WAR are the only good damage dealing subs for DRK, however /SAM offers a defensive capability coupled with all the delicious buffs. Easy choice, imho.

I think the greater moral is that /SAM offers a pretty solid defensive ability, while still causing you to do more damage than if you were /WAR. I know you're trying to be agreeable, but don't hand him an agree to disagree treaty, he's wrong.

[Fryte]

They don't voke period in those events.. So yeah...

Your LS fails. I'm sorry to break it to you.

[Genosync]

Anyone bitching about:

Cast times being longer with Hasso/Seigan on
Not having defensive capabilities on /SAM

Needs to seriously rethink everything about how they play the game, because they're failing miserably. You can do one period of spellcasting every minute, without massively increased timers, and not lose your infinite Hasso. Learn how to cancel statuses or get something that does it for you (does such a plugin exist now anyway?).

And if you know you're going to pull hate with an opening WS on a mob, you better hit that Seigan+Third Eye so you don't get your face ripped off.

SAM SJ: Offense, Defense, TP Gain, Haste... all in one package. gfg, there is no reason to sub anything else except if you're Kraken/Kris zerging.

[Fwahm]

Except for those that it doesn't.

In a party with a Ridill WAR, I parsed better /war as /sam.

Just looked it up to recheck my figures.

/sam parse

WAR 42%
DRK 35%
NIN 23%

Same party, switched to /war during a break

WAR 40%
DRK 38%
NIN 22%

[Kaiyoko]

Your LS fails. I'm sorry to break it to you.

It isn't so much that they don't voke is we don't use Wars really compared to DRK and SAM.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Except for those that it doesn't.

In a party with a Ridill WAR, I parsed better /war as /sam.

Just looked it up to recheck my figures.

/sam parse

WAR 42%
DRK 35%
NIN 23%

Same party, switched to /war during a break

WAR 40%
DRK 38%
NIN 22%

2005 called, they wanted their basis for comparison back.

(as well as their, "<year> called" jokes)

The fact that your DRK/SAM was smashed by a dual-wielding WAR/NIN is pretty sad in itself, and reassures me of the fact that you have no idea what you're doing.

[Fryte]

Hmm. That's possible. For most things, WAR/NIN is an excellent combination of tanking and damage so it allows other DDs to do much more damage. Provoke + Rampage is usually enough to keep hate from whatever Guillotine I can push out unless it's a crazy Last Resort'd Double Attack'd Guillotine, so I can focus more on doing damage (which is what DRK is all about and less about defending myself.) Though, being able to defend yourself is a life-saving bonus, which /WAR does not provide.

[Kaiyoko]

2005 called, they wanted their basis for comparison back.

(as well as their, "<year> called" jokes)

The fact that your DRK/SAM was smashed by a dual-wielding WAR/NIN is pretty sad in itself, and reassures me of the fact that you have no idea what you're doing.

^ ;D

[Nameless]

I find city dynamis similar to merit parties, in which you just bounce hate etc since the mobs are dieing too fast. For Xacarbard, I don't think you would get hate as /nin if the other DDs in your ls got any sort of skill.

As for nyzul, eh... just kill everything at the fastest speed. My group have been going with 3 DDs, one cor, two mages for over 100 runs, never had MP problem, all melees /sam. I again don't see a point of /nin under time limit events.

For Einharjar, for T3 only Khamaira's AoE will be absorbed by shadows, and it is one TP move out of many, and one boss out of many possible ones. Kill speed again is very important for T3, so I am not sure why /nin again.

Limbus is a joke, /war if you want. Salvage is whatever, if war/sam can tank LBC, so can drk/sam, which I did partially during a 9 min kill.

You are probably on a conservative side of playing, which I don't blame you. Just saying you can probably try to open up a bit more. Mages are there for a reason, don't let them fall asleep.

[Baelorn]

Cancel Hasso as mob is about to die.
Cast Drain for 3-400 damage.
Toss up Seigan if that pulled hate, if not reapply Hasso.

Using magic on DRK in meripo is so hard

[Nameless]

2005 called, they wanted their basis for comparison back.

(as well as their, "<year> called" jokes)

The fact that your DRK/SAM was smashed by a dual-wielding WAR/NIN is pretty sad in itself, and reassures me of the fact that you have no idea what you're doing.

Yea, ridill warrior parsing over drk/sam is a thing in the past. Most drk/sam now a day only lose to war/sam with GA or mnk/nin if you are any good.