Drk Merrit: LR Effect or Lower SE recast

[Tsuko_Asura]

The point in the lifespan of your target is really quite irrelevant. You'd still be better off swinging the damn thing, and immediately engaging the next target.

[Baelorn]

The point in the lifespan of your target is really quite irrelevant. You'd still be better off swinging the damn thing, and immediately engaging the next target.

No, that's what you do if you're lazy and would rather play WAR with Scythe.

Also, the Drain should be going off on the next target.

Edit: And how exactly is swinging once for ~200 damage better than casting once for ~300+ damage?

[Kaiyoko]

No, that's what you do if you're lazy and would rather play WAR with Scythe.

Also, the Drain should be going off on the next target.

Edit: And how exactly is swinging once for ~200 damage better than casting once for ~300+ damage?

Probably doesn't have dark skill+ and magic acc gear to get 300+ >_>;;

[Roxan]

5/5 SE recast and 5/5 LR effect

SE > LR > Catastrophe and leave it up. Rarely use Seigan doing this and never cast a spell.

[Raen Ryong]

Does the casting give you TP?

Hitting brings you one step closer to WS which does more damage than the damage difference.

Normal hits can DA, crit etc allowing them to do more.

[Genosync]

Not everything in this game is about doing the most damage possible in the shortest amount of time, ALL THE TIME, dumbass.

[Fryte]

Every time you swing, imagine you added on 20% of your WS damage with each hit if you have a 5hit setup. That's why casting magic fails on DRK. However, Dread Spikes is fucking awesome. 1000 damage for a 2s cast time spell that also makes you invincible aside from monster weaponskills? Woot. Shame it doesn't show up on most parses though.

[Genosync]

Every time you swing, imagine you added on 20% of your WS damage with each hit if you have a 5hit setup. That's why casting magic fails on DRK. However, Dread Spikes is fucking awesome. 1000 damage for a 2s cast time spell that also makes you invincible aside from monster weaponskills? Woot. Shame it doesn't show up on most parses though.

Fails for most things, Fryte, but as I'm sure you know, it's worth it to do that quick Drain if you need to Souleater WS to save a chain, especially if your healer is low on MP (which shouldn't be happening anyway! so it's irrelevant).

[Baelorn]

Sorry but I play my DRK very actively(magic, abilities, etc) and I have yet to see this magic decrease in DoT that is so horrible it causes DRKs to stop playing their job properly. Any missed swing from casting Drain is made up for by using Souleater with my melee hits.

Any DRK that doesn't use their magic may as well not be playing the job. That's just my opinion.

[Raen Ryong]

There's nothing wrong with using your magic as long as you acknowledge that it is at the cost of your other damages.

I could refuse to Stun in merit parties and not use Dread Spikes to increase my damage but I choose not to. I feel things like Drain except in emergency are just limitting it for no real reason.

In some situations, DRK's magic is very useful, and in some, not so useful. Just because you have something doesn't mean you have to use it all of the time; choice and control are important (DRK also has Souleater to this end)!

[Fwahm]

2005 called, they wanted their basis for comparison back.

(as well as their, "<year> called" jokes)

The fact that your DRK/SAM was smashed by a dual-wielding WAR/NIN is pretty sad in itself, and reassures me of the fact that you have no idea what you're doing.

I don't see how being beaten by a Ridill WAR is anything to be ashamed of, especially since this parse was before the two hander patch.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I don't see how being beaten by a Ridill WAR is anything to be ashamed of, especially since this parse was before the two hander patch.

Then why was it even brought up? Anything that happened pre-patch is completely irrelivant to an arguement with a premise based on right now.

And to the, "I don't see why you'd play the job without casting" person, how fallacious can you possibly be? I'm not going to sit here and knock you for utilizing every avenue of your job's repertoir, but my goal is to be at maximum efficiency, not to roleplay.

[Xrave]

I used to have 5/5 LR Effect and 5/5 SE Recast. Things were great back in the day, then I kept getting better geared and holding hate more and more (what I'm trying to say is the more gimp a DRK is, the better SE Recast is for them).

I now have 5/5 LR Effect and 5/5 LR Recast for a few reasons.

1. I haven't used SE in a merit party other than to save a chain or to buff a WS in...well other than that I don't remember the last time I used it just to use it. Yes having 5/5 SE Recast means you do 1 better WS one min earlier than with no merits, but even without using SE I still have hate 90% of the time and using SE ontop of that just isn't a wise choice. The small chances where I'm not holding hate on merit mobs (or HNM really) easily fits into a 6 min recast.

2. HNM where you rotate SE: sad thing is if you have more than 2 DRKs (or just 2 DRKs), by the time you get around to going again 6 min has already passed waisting the recast merits.

3. HNM where you setup a zerg with 2hrs: only need SE once.

I'm probably more of an exception due to having an Apoc and basically the best gear, and whenever I do merit I'm with very good DDs (not even considering point 1, using SE everytime it's up would probably kill all the mobs before repops at camps), basically SE recast has very little use to me.

[Not Kuno]

what I'm trying to say is the more gimp a DRK is, the better SE Recast is for them

My drk get's used the most at stuff like Nyzul, and I like having a short SE recast because more often then not I use it the second it's up due to shitty bosses or just the 20/40/60etc bosses etc. Just because you don't need it the second it's up doesn't make someone gimp.

[Fwahm]

Then why was it even brought up? Anything that happened pre-patch is completely irrelivant to an arguement with a premise based on right now.

And to the, "I don't see why you'd play the job without casting" person, how fallacious can you possibly be? I'm not going to sit here and knock you for utilizing every avenue of your job's repertoir, but my goal is to be at maximum efficiency, not to roleplay.

It's not irrelevant, because we aren't arguing exactly how well as DRK can do. We're arguing how well /sam works vs /war. The ratio between them should be completley unchanged after the patch. Thus, it demonstrates how /war outperforms /sam for me.

[ubermonkey]

IThe ratio between them should be completley unchanged after the patch.

Except not really given the bucketload of attack 2handers were handed after the patch, which devalues berserk since you don't need it to hit (or get close to, if you're not at birds) the attack cap in merits. Also the bucketload of acc, making it easier to swing meat + haste, which benefits /sam more because of the increasing returns of haste with hasso.

[Arthars]

i did 5 recast(obviously) 3 effect and 2 SE recast

may move it to 5 LR recast and 5 SE recast

and yes i use SE the moment its ready for HNMs(i have wife ID to cure Vs) and for meripo(meditate > SE > cut cut cut > catastrophe cure)

and yea if that catastrope miss, im pretty screwed, so i go seigan > dark seal > drain II

shit is situational, it all depends how u adapt your own playstyle w/o the expenses of others (poor whm if i miss that vital catastrophe )

/emo with 800+ crit hit too!!

[Arthars]

Anyone bitching about:

Cast times being longer with Hasso/Seigan on
Not having defensive capabilities on /SAM

Needs to seriously rethink everything about how they play the game, because they're failing miserably. You can do one period of spellcasting every minute, without massively increased timers, and not lose your infinite Hasso. Learn how to cancel statuses or get something that does it for you (does such a plugin exist now anyway?).

And if you know you're going to pull hate with an opening WS on a mob, you better hit that Seigan+Third Eye so you don't get your face ripped off.

SAM SJ: Offense, Defense, TP Gain, Haste... all in one package. gfg, there is no reason to sub anything else except if you're Kraken/Kris zerging.

regarding cancelling, yep i do cancels in my macro to get back the /recast

however because cancelling is pretty "last minute", the casting time still doubles.....but the recast is normal w/o penalty

am i doing it wrong? or its normal lolol

i have even tried hasso > cancel it > wait 1 sec > cast dread spikes > still cast double duration but no /recast penalty

hmmm?

[Raen Ryong]

I never have any problem manually cancelling hasso/seigan and then using Dread Spikes, normal cast and recast... I dunno ;x

[Xrave]

Just because you don't need it the second it's up doesn't make someone gimp.

Oh it's exactly what I meant to say. Don't get me wrong, in some instances 5/5 SE Recast is good (as you pointed out with Nyzul), but for general HNM and merits it's typically the weaker you are the better it becomes.

If you're holding hate on an HNM or merit mobs without using SE, you probably aren't going to use SE and leave it up since you will probably (most likely) die. As I said it's good for buffing WSs, but hardly worth the 5 merits for just that purpose. The worse your gear or less aggressive your play style (weaker on the parser), the more benefit you gain for leaving it up since the mob isn't facing you at the beginning or soon after.

If I had a dedicated cure mule like Arthas, I would probably do 5/5 SE Recast, but that's not feasible.

Edit: Last Resort I can use whenever it's up without worrying about dying (at least far far less risk of dying).