Drk Merrit: LR Effect or Lower SE recast

[Not Kuno]

I don't use drk for HNM (except kraken zerg) so none of that really effects me.

[Baelorn]

And to the, "I don't see why you'd play the job without casting" person, how fallacious can you possibly be? I'm not going to sit here and knock you for utilizing every avenue of your job's repertoir, but my goal is to be at maximum efficiency, not to roleplay.

It has nothing to do with roleplay. If you're not casting you are a WAR/SAM without Berserk and Aggressor. Maximum efficiency would be retiring DRK and leveling WAR because an equally well-geared WAR/SAM(NIN) would be more efficient(in meripo).

I think a lot of people can't use Souleater effectively because they're afraid to cast and/or they're afraid of mages having to go under 75% MP in a meripo.

Like I said I use Souleater whenever I can and I have seen zero reason not to besides people who play DRK as WAR telling me I shouldn't. I parse highest or second highest in every meripo I'm in as DRK and our chains go as high as anyone else's. Until I see my SE use/casting hurt my parse numbers or lose chains before 100 because of it then I'll continue to do it.

[kayn]

I don't even know what game most of you guys are even playing. SE recast seems good if you have an apoc. Otherwise, merit LR recast, then do your teir IIs or go merit some other job.

[Tsuko_Asura]

It has nothing to do with roleplay. If you're not casting you are a WAR/SAM without Berserk and Aggressor. Maximum efficiency would be retiring DRK and leveling WAR because an equally well-geared WAR/SAM(NIN) would be more efficient(in meripo).

It has everything to do with roleplay. The fact of the matter is, you're more effective at the job when you're not using magic. If you want to sit there and pretend like acting as a pseudo-Warrior isn't going to give you the best results, then fine. And yeah, if you'd like to nitpick, it would be more efficient to just level Warrior, but that's an unrealistic level of 'efficiency' to demand out of anyone.

By the way, you've had Aggressor for a while now.

[Sess]

On the subject of subjob choices:

I think a lot of people mentioned this in this thread, but shit is situations. I believe most people who mention /SAM over other subs mostly mention that for Merits/NI/Salvage/Limbus/Dynamis, where often times you are already close to the attack diminishing returns on those monsters. One thing that is missing from this discussion is the exponential effects of stacking haste, and I don't think attack gives you the same type of returns. I do /WAR for certain things, on preNerf JoL /WAR worked better for me. JoL very high defense, and around 800 constant attack, your swing average on DRK should be 50 - 60 dmg, and you will almost never see a 0 dmg with berserk up.

On the subject of magic in merit situations:

I've tested this on my own, I have 8/8 Dark Magic merits and most of the Dark Magic + gear a DRK can wear. To me /SAM is the best, so I've tested many strategies to maximize my output with /SAM. Most of my merit parties go with 1 BRD offering double march. I've tried full 320 Dark Magic skill, Haste Build casting, and no casting at all. No casting almost always out performs the other strategies. DRK is my main job, and I'm very confident in my Absorb-TP and Drain II timing skills. This is why unless its a no brainer (Mob is entering casting range and my Drain II will land before I can swing at it) I just don't cast on merits.

[ninjafox]

Do drks gain HP back by using catastrophe or is it just on melee hits?

[kayn]

Do drks gain HP back by using catastrophe or is it just on melee hits?

When they use the relic WS that get a % of the dmg back as HP.

[ninjafox]

OK, so I would think apoc drks would wanna do SE recast simply for that reason alone.

Edit: oops somebody said that already. Carry on

[Not Kuno]

It has nothing to do with roleplay. If you're not casting you are a WAR/SAM without Berserk and Aggressor. Maximum efficiency would be retiring DRK and leveling WAR because an equally well-geared WAR/SAM(NIN) would be more efficient(in meripo).

Trufax. I always cast Abs-tp when I have souleater up for an extra WS provided the mob isn't dark resistant. It's not hard to figure out when a mob is going to do a TP move so I get 50+ tp 80% of the time.

[Xrave]

OK, so I would think apoc drks would wanna do SE recast simply for that reason alone.

Typically the damage from SE on Apoc nullifies or lowers the HP you gain from Cata to the point where if it didn't totally get rid of the heal effect, the next hit would.

Meritting 5/5 SE Recast for just a WS buff isn't the best use of merits.

[ninjafox]

Ah, I figured it'd cancel each other out with the HP drain and all. Just didn't know how the drain effect worked on apoc

[chapstick]

Personally I'm 5/5 on both LR Recast/Effect. I love it. I don't even use DRK alot but for merits sometimes, and rarely limbus or salvage or einherjar or other random crap.

Also did 5/5 D.Eye, 1 Dark seal, and 4 D.Blows. I really think meritting both LR effect/recast is a great idea if you want to take full advantage of desperate blows. Of course I did them before D.blows even existed, but it made my choice better once they added it.

[kayn]

Personally I'm 5/5 on both LR Recast/Effect. I love it. I don't even use DRK alot but for merits sometimes, and rarely limbus or salvage or einherjar or other random crap.

Also did 5/5 D.Eye, 1 Dark seal, and 4 D.Blows. I really think meritting both LR effect/recast is a great idea if you want to take full advantage of desperate blows. Of course I did them before D.blows even existed, but it made my choice better once they added it.

this.

[Fcube]

Typically the damage from SE on Apoc nullifies or lowers the HP you gain from Cata to the point where if it didn't totally get rid of the heal effect, the next hit would.

Meritting 5/5 SE Recast for just a WS buff isn't the best use of merits.

Can you explain this more?

Are you saying with SE on, the drain effect on Cata will not work?

Thanks.

[Tubbers]

There are a couple things wrong with this thread, but Fcube is upgrading Apoc, so try to keep that in mind with suggestions.

As for the above, he means that the amount you drain from Catastrophe is canceled out by the Soul Eater drain. I.E. Cata for ~900, drain for ~225-450, Soul Eater drains ~200, so you don't really gain any HP, and if you did, the next hit would take anything you gained away.

Something else to keep in mind is that Fcube has no fear of death, he probably keeps Soul Eater up for the full minute as it is now, WSing every chance he gets.

To get the maximum performance, you're going to need to know what your play style is post-Apoc. If you're using Soul Eater for most or all of its duration, then 5 merits into Soul Eater recast will be more beneficial than LR recast or effect. If you aren't getting completely owned when you do this, SE+LR at the same time will give the best effect, so you'd want to keep those timers together and go for LR effect.

If I'm right, you'll end up with the best damage possible, maybe, and if I'm wrong then you'll die a lot more. It's a win-win scenario.

[Aesctaa]

Can you explain this more?

Are you saying with SE on, the drain effect on Cata will not work?

Thanks.

It works as normal, but the amount of HP lost from souleater (single hit WS like all relic WSs) is greater than the extra amount you drain because of the small damage boost. example:

Cata for 1200, you get 50% of that back in drain, so you get 600 HP back (just like a dancers drain samba, you get the HP back but it does not add extra damage)

Now you SE with 1500HP and cata for 1350, assume you drain 50% back again(it can vary), thats 675 drain less the 150 HP lost from souleater, so you get 525 HP back.

Apoc totally changes DRK, but my merits are set 5/5 SE recast, 5/5 LR recast(no brainer), 1 dark seal, 1 diabolic eye(i ride hasso a lot, i dont like the HP down), 3 Muted soul, 5 Desperate blows(DRK/WAR apoc zerg etc)

As to SE usage, in merits i use it whenever its up(i have cure mules), even without cure mules you can still get away with using it a lot so long as you fully utilize cata+meditate to keep the burden off the mages, COR+BRD PTs should have no issues with MP. At events i make a judgment as to how the ally is set, if its low on damage or heavy on healing, I'll use it often, a fight dragging on longer can just as easily cost extra MP, the key is being sensible about it and knowing when is not a good time to be lowering your own HP and/or diverting your mages attention.

Mileage may vary, shit is situational etc, you pay 100mil for a weapon and you can use it however you like, but this is my way.

[onigami]

using SE everytime it's up would probably kill all the mobs before repops at camps

last resort recast/effect. i dont like using souleater and last resort at same time unless im Bloodweaponing.

seigan/hasso something something i hate abs-tp

recast on those abilities is 60 sec. cancel, cast, ja again shouldn't be that hard, u just gotta keep an eye on ur recast timers. not using ur abs-tp is gimping yourself IMO, and asking for the mob to ws u even faster/harder. u should have a feel by ur pt's tp spam when your mob is close to wsing. i love throwing down a 60absorb right before a mobs ws and it's ws hits for crap/resist. coupled with meditate u'll be wsing more especially if ur timers are working with you
some things to think about when using abs-tp. try to hit the mob with abs-tp just before it hits 20%, mobs ws at 100%tp from 20>1% hp, but save tp from 100>21% and use ws's randomly; everyone should know that u cant abs more tp than the mob already has, but if the mob has over 100tp you can usually take 60tp, so if your mob ws's during ur cast, interrupt your cast. ALSO!!! stun those slow WS's!!!!!!! then abs-tp.
another chance to use this is when throw out a stun when u think u got a mobs' tp gain timed; 2/5 times i get to stun a ws.
often, throwing down stun before abs-tp is a good strategy to use when u know ur mob has tp saved up and he's near 20% health; u wont have to interrupt ur casting and waste a abs-tp cuz he ws'd in the time it took to cast.
stunning a dynamis mob for more than the time it takes u to cast abs tp is rare, but u can try this there too. probably a lot of people better at it than i am.
i dont like putting up dreadspikes in exp, takes to long to cast if not in between mobs. but its great for solo or /nin to put up after ichi-ni-ichi and that next ni is still 30 sec away.

drks that dont use magics make me cry. yay for taru mp! but boo for no 2400hp 2hr goodness.

back to the OP

souleater recast is for very aggressive players and probably not even feasible for exp unless u have a (good) drg/whm main curing. se-recast might help in missions but those missions that you'd need it most are lvl capped. stick with last resort and buff the fuck out of desperate blows (lvl 4) to get that much more out of last resort. my tier2 merits are DS1, DE5 (so u gotta wannabe aggressor with decent recast for exp), and DB4.

[Tubbers]

wall of text...
unless u have a (good) drg/whm main curing

No.

[Baelorn]

Are you saying a DRG/Mage can't mainheal or that a DRG/Mage shouldn't mainheal due to lack of haste?

[Tubbers]

The second. Even then it won't work very well anywhere but colibri camp.