Haste Samba Tests

[heavensword]

Haste Samaba never did lower recast timers, just like all other /ja Haste. If it were magic, it should have.

[rog]

Haste Samba is the only JA Haste 1Hers can get. MNKs NINs etc... can now go above the Eq/Magic Cap and almost reach the hard cap themselves.

nin can already get ~82% delay reduction, capped haste gear (shinobi earring, and red hp needed), relic pants/afchainmail/suppa, and capped magic haste. =p

speaking of which, has there been any tests to see if DW counts towards the 80% hard cap?

[Kirschy]

I had designed a test a while ago to discern if the 80% cap affected dualwield too. I don't have a suppa though, and I would probably need to get more precise values on dualwield. I ended up scrapping the test since it would be too difficult to tell for sure, and there were other areas I wanted to focus on. It would be easier to test now /w Haste Samba, but I don't have easy access to a Dancer.

As for Haste Samba affecting jobs that hit more than once per attack round, and multihit weapons... It would be easy to test if they get more haste depending on landed hits. If I get a chance, I'll run some on that~

[Tsutsumiko]

I had designed a test a while ago to discern if the 80% cap affected dualwield too. I don't have a suppa though, and I would probably need to get more precise values on dualwield. I ended up scrapping the test since it would be too difficult to tell for sure, and there were other areas I wanted to focus on. It would be easier to test now /w Haste Samba, but I don't have easy access to a Dancer.

As for Haste Samba affecting jobs that hit more than once per attack round, and multihit weapons... It would be easy to test if they get more haste depending on landed hits. If I get a chance, I'll run some on that~

If you let me know what needs to be done, I can try to conduct the tests for/with you. Shoot me a PM and perhaps we can talk via AIM, MSN, etc.

[Talint]

This is the Corsair in question. Paz is a close friend of mine.

Edit: Also on multi-hit weapons, I agree with Mikayla. There's nothing we can really do to test this (at least as far as I know, without like counting exact frames). I use Azoth Main Hand, Joyeuse Off Hand for XP situations, and it seems to be slightly slower than dual-wielding daggers and the times you do land Joyeuse's double proc, it seems as if you attack again near immediately.

This could just be placebo but I do feel that landing double attack procs does increase it, but without having a way to test, I'm not really sure. If someone could fire me off a PM letting me know how to test something like this, I'd be more than happy to assist.

The easiest way to test, I imagine, is to team up with a g.axe war with no haste, and stack him up with double attack gear, measure the difference on a multi-hit versus regular hit.

I've never tried any kind of testing like this. I imagine it wouldn't be easy.

[Kirschy]

NIN /w Relic Katana (999 Delay) would make it real obvious if you're getting twice the amount of haste or not. I just don't have easy access to a dancer.

For multihit, just using a ridill or kraken for a few hits would be clear if you're getting extra haste.

It's too bad you're not on Fenrir, Tsutsumiko =(

[Shamaya]

The easiest way to test, I imagine, is to team up with a g.axe war with no haste, and stack him up with double attack gear, measure the difference on a multi-hit versus regular hit.

Another way to test delays is to use a stage1 relic, as they have 999 delay. With such a high delay, a stop watch actually becomes reliable. You could, for example, take a thief with stage1 and test the delay after a normal swing, and compare it to the delay after a triple attack. Doing that, it should be easy to see if there's any cumulative effect (although I'd imagine there is not).
Edit: loox like you realized that 5 minutes ago, lul

I had designed a test a while ago to discern if the 80% cap affected dualwield too. I don't have a suppa though, and I would probably need to get more precise values on dualwield.

I really don't believe so, or otherwise we'd probably have realized how broken Ninja were a long time ago. Without any equipment enhancements, a 75Nin gets -30% delay from DW passives. If this stacked, you'd have been able to get into the 90's and even over 100% haste/-delay, pre March08 nerf, and the world would have collapsed.

I feel your pain. There's only one Corsair on Asura worth meriting with. :/

There're a few. Kuroshi and Kahlii come to mind. And maybe a JP or too. But I guess it depends what you think makes a Cor good. I'm yet to meet a Cor who thinks they'd help the party by pulling ferociously. I'd take a good pulling Cor who embraced the dart over their own loldps any day.

[Shamaya]

Just gathered up some friends and went out to test this.
Conclusion: Multi-procs (double attack, triple attack, etc) do not trigger a cumulative haste effect from haste samba.

Setup and Method
Thf/Nin, Single-wield Relic Dagger with 999 base delay (16.65 seconds)

18% haste from gear
15% haste from haste spell
20% haste from marches
New Delay = 469 (469.53) ; 7.82 seconds

9% haste from Haste Samba (4 merits)
New Delay = 379 (379.62) ; 6.32 seconds

Hypothetical 27% haste from Haste Samba (4 merit) w/ Triple-Attack proc
Hypothetical Delay = 199 (199.8 ) ; 3.3 seconds

We had two people using stop watches,
**Confirmed ~6.32 seconds delay w/ stacked haste and haste samba
**Confirmed ~6.32 seconds delay even after a Triple-Attack proc


Just as a follow-up, I wanted to double check if haste samba was like the other sambas in that they're party only as opposed to having an alliance wide effect.
**Confirmed, party-only. Delay was ~7.82 seconds with the dancer in the other party
Too bad think it'd be a great niche for Dnc as a job if their sambas had an alliance-wide effect.

[Mikayla]

Just gathered up some friends and went out to test this.
Conclusion: Multi-procs (double attack, triple attack, etc) do not trigger a cumulative haste effect from haste samba.

Well, that pretty much confirms what I had mentioned earlier up. Thanks for taking the time to test it out though, even if it was kind of one of those times I was hoping I was wrong. :<

**Confirmed, party-only. Delay was ~7.82 seconds with the dancer in the other party
Too bad think it'd be a great niche for Dnc as a job if their sambas had an alliance-wide effect.

Yeah, we knew it was only party wide from day 1, and this was one of those things that I'm still hoping they add as a category 2 DNC merit. DNC's effectiveness would be multiplied astronomically if Sambas were alliance wide. Steps being effective on the mob no matter who hits it just isn't enough to put DNC in a "usable over other jobs" category.

Again though, thanks for taking the time to confirm this bit of information, at least now we know for sure.

[Tsuko_Asura]

There're a few. Kuroshi and Kahlii come to mind. And maybe a JP or too. But I guess it depends what you think makes a Cor good. I'm yet to meet a Cor who thinks they'd help the party by pulling ferociously. I'd take a good pulling Cor who embraced the dart over their own loldps any day.

Admittedly, I don't merit much these days, but back when I did, Kuroshi was the only Corsair I met worth a damn. But hey, its nice to hear there are a few more good ones roaming around. God knows Kuro had to be getting fed up with my, "Wanna' merit?!?!?!" /tells >_>;

[Kirschy]

Ah thanks for the test. Good to know it doesn't stack. Would have been kinda cool if they got double the haste from samba =p.

As for Dual Wield. It's a seperate term... so with maxed out haste + dualwield you could achieve a total delay reduction greater than 80%. It's unclear if the current "haste cap" occurs only /w haste or accounts for dual wield too. It would only be slightly over 80% anyway, so it isn't a big deal one way or another~

[Spider-Dan]

Cough cough, corsair's roll? You think it's that important?

In a word: yes. There is effectively no camp at which you can both kill fast enough to make Corsair's obsolete and not outpace pops. And there is no situation... anywhere... ever... when Store TP +~23 is going to increase your exp/hr more than exp+15%.

I also felt the need to add that the DRK thread basically ruined all your credibility, so don't even try to comment on things Corsair, you haven't ever probably partied with a good one of those either, and certain that you haven't even done it yourself.

This coming from the person who thinks it's a good idea for COR to offhand Trailer's to Joyeuse? The same person that is seriously promoting the use of non-boosted Samurai Roll over f'ing Corsair's Roll?!?! Comedy gold.

Spare us your tales of Corsair exploits.

[Fryte]

The comment about Corsair's Roll Geno made was sarcastic. He understands how important it is, trust me. Also, I don't even think Geno owns a Trailer's Kukri. I don't think he'd ever offhand a Joyeuse though. Mercurial kris however...

[Bakthi]

There're a few. Kuroshi and Kahlii come to mind. And maybe a JP or too. But I guess it depends what you think makes a Cor good. I'm yet to meet a Cor who thinks they'd help the party by pulling ferociously. I'd take a good pulling Cor who embraced the dart over their own loldps any day.

That's what BRDs are for, and I don't take my COR to a merit party unless it has a BRD already. They have nothing better to do; COR does. Of course, I'll pull something if I see the BRD is having a problem keeping mobs lined up, but hopefully that isn't happening too regularly. If a COR is doing "loldps" on merit-level mobs, they should look into why.

Shit is situational, I'm sure, but I put myself into situations where I should be shooting stuff in the eye. Otherwise, I might as well just come BRD.

[Spider-Dan]

The comment about Corsair's Roll Geno made was sarcastic. He understands how important it is, trust me.

That seems unlikely, since his very first post in this thread suggested that the COR use Chaos+Samurai (without SAM in party, mind you).

From what I can tell, every time Genosync opens his mouth about COR (or RNG), he says precisely the opposite of the truth. This is not an isolated incident.

Also, I don't even think Geno owns a Trailer's Kukri.

Notwithstanding the fact that he supposedly quit this game, and would therefore own nothing:

C. COR WS Gear:
Joy Trailer Gun Bulletz
Maat Chram STR2 Suppa
AFz Gauntlet STR5 Rajas
Mantles STR+5?idr Skadis Skadis

[Cyprias]

Yea, so its only effective 95% of the time, even if at capped acc. When lets say at 80-85% acc, becomes even less effective. Which is one of the main reasons I'm not too keen on using dnc in much.

I'm not too informative on all the effects of DNC steps, but couldn't the DNC help the other Melee with Quickstep, making it easier for them to reach the acc cap so haste samba is more effective?

[Talint]

I'm not too informative on all the effects of DNC steps, but couldn't the DNC help the other Melee with Quickstep, making it easier for them to reach the acc cap so haste samba is more effective?

It depends. If you're meriting, the chances are the mob will be dead before you can land a third/forth Quickstep where you'll start to see a difference. As it stands, you'll probably only get -12 evasion before the mob dies.

It's my personal opinion, but DNC is kind of paradoxical. DNC works best for longer fights, but isn't potent enough to be powerful for long fights. In short fights, where the DNC potency should be highlighted, there mob isn't alive long enough to hit the high mark.

[Tsuko_Asura]

The comment about Corsair's Roll Geno made was sarcastic. He understands how important it is, trust me. Also, I don't even think Geno owns a Trailer's Kukri. I don't think he'd ever offhand a Joyeuse though. Mercurial kris however...

Bullshit.

[Tsutsumiko]

It depends. If you're meriting, the chances are the mob will be dead before you can land a third/forth Quickstep where you'll start to see a difference. As it stands, you'll probably only get -12 evasion before the mob dies.

It's my personal opinion, but DNC is kind of paradoxical. DNC works best for longer fights, but isn't potent enough to be powerful for long fights. In short fights, where the DNC potency should be highlighted, there mob isn't alive long enough to hit the high mark.

This is the truth.

However, this doesn't stop me from using Quick Step most of the time because in meripo, your DDs are already ripping through everything and magic in meripo is lol....so quick is the way to go for storing Finishing Moves/Stocks. (Am I the only one who calls them "Stocks" or "Charges" just cause it's easier to say and sounds less retarded?)

The paradox thing though is spot on. And that is why I'm so upset that even with all these new merits, DNC still isn't a "good" job. I love playing it. But I will never get to do so.