Dear Mr.Bob or any C/C++ progammers

[The Blackrose]

lol, one of my friends worked as a tools dev for EA Europe for a few years, they're apparently a really horrible employer.

EA had a QoL issue pop up about 2-3 years ago. An employee's wife ended up posting the entire situation to a livejournal. Was pretty interesting.

[liami]

The only reason i don't use it is because .NET has taken over the world. There's even an app called Mono which kinda emulates .NET on Linux.

Contradicted myself, yes, but still Java does have more worth that it's given credit for (just not in my line of work).
A few online banking systems use applets, some use servlets.
There seems to be quite a large market for it, take a look at http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/java.do
23% of UK IT Programming Jobs required Java skills. By just not bothering with it you're washing away 23% of your prospective employment opportunities in programming.
However the same website shows that the demand for those skills has dropped by 6% over the past year, so take that for what you will. Certainly nothing to be snuffed at though.

[Zosi]

Edit:
Oh and java has a pretty neat 3D API Package which you can use to create some pretty simple games. It has capabilities for collision detection, loading textures and other neat tricks.
http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/desktop/java3d/

Java seems to be really underestimated by a lot of you, at least here in the UK they teach it predominantly as their programming language of choice in CompSci degrees and college courses. I did 2 years of Java at college then 3 more years of Java at Uni.
It's good for multiplatform, but always felt really sluggish to me and i wouldn't use it now for anything really, maybe some mobile apps but why bother.

I don't think most of us underestimate Java, it just comes off that way because Java really is pretty much useless for PC game development, which is the topic under discussion. I can't speak for everyone else, but I learned Java when I was around 12 (because it was going to be the NEXT BIG THING!), and have used it occasionally since, but given that my recreational programming tends to be performance-necessary desktop apps, I kinda stay away from it like the plague. I'd much rather write basically anything performance-critical in C/C++ and anything "lazy" in Python+WxWidgets. I did write some math stuff in Java when I was in college, but that was more of a proof-of-concept to show that Java could still be pretty speedy when you stuck to the command line.

I can highly recommend Python for rapid development or prototyping, or even simple games. It's well-designed*, pretty speedy once compiled (pre-compilation is available) and has a glut of good libraries to use. There's Python bindings for the majority of common C libraries, so what I usually do for prototyping is to write the basic application using Python and something like WxWidgets, then once it's off the ground, rewrite it in C++/WxWidgets for performance. The API calls are all similar, so it's mostly just a matter of translating program logic and handling memory management.

* - except for the whole indentation-as-syntax thing

Edit: Java is indeed quite popular at the enterprise-level, but that's for very different reasons, much like its popularity in embedded systems.

[aurik]

Indentation as syntax is amazing, don't make me come over there and replace all your tabs with spaces.

[Zhais]

Real programmers program in Whitespace

[Zosi]

Indentation as syntax is amazing, don't make me come over there and replace all your tabs with spaces.

That's like threatening to steal a Lisp programmer's parenthesis.

[Kaelan?]

Another dP student )/,

although I don't really have a lot to add after what's already been mentioned. Bottom line is, don't get into game programming unless you really feel that's what you want to do; you'll definitely have to work your ass off to learn how to do everything properly and once you get there, that's just where the fun begins.

I love doing it and wouldn't switch major for anything (and definitely not change schools - there's absolutetly no way I'd have learned anywhere close to all the game-specific stuff we do here on a regular CS degree), but I'd have probably gone mad by now if I didn't actually enjoy staying on campus till midnight multiple times a week working on some obscure game engine architecture implementation detail or researching fancy physics algorithms.

Also, relevant to your interests:
https://www.digipen.edu/uploads/medi...s_issue_24.mp3

Anyways, going to bed. Hurray for two midterms back to back in a few hours (although I'm not sure I can even call a ghali-less CS midterm something to worry about )

[Aerin]

I'm a little surprised CS 225 is proving to be harder than CS 200 this year. I thought it was because Ghali isn't there, but some of my team that took both over the summer said Volper's class was still harder.

[Gere]

Ghali's difficulty has been steadily decreasing for a while now. After all, if he fails people too hard, they drop out and then DP can't take their money anymore.

[Kaelan?]

Eh, I don't know. I took CS225 over summer and it wasn't really that bad. Latetly I find myself only really having to worry about Math/Physics - all the CS stuff isn't really that hard - even CS280 is easier than I thought it would be.

[MisterBob]

I did Java at university in the UK and forgot it asap.

edit: You say it's underestimated but you wouldn't use it for anything? ok then

I'm going to use my first post in a thread with my name on it to lol at this

[Amele]

Real programmers program in Whitespace

brainfuck or gtfo.

[Kaelan?]

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[Zhais]

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[Nny]

Man this is such a perfect thread for me right now. Hopefully I can get some advice from you guys. Well, it's kind of off the topic but still fits so yeah <3

Back in 10th grade, I had my first programming class (Visual Basic) and completely owned it up. I had finished the entire year's project the first semester, and the second semester I just spent making games. Next year I had dual enrolled a community college and took a C++ class. I aced the class even though I rarely ever went to school that year. And after dropping out of HS, I haven't really programmed outside of a few odd projects. Even though I loved programming in a class, it was because I was able to program something new everyday. My thing about a career in programming was having to do the same thing over and over and over again. So I never really looked at it as a future.

Jump to now. I work in IS (help desk) and it's cool and all, I love the social aspect of it since I know basically everyone in my company (Somewhere around 500 employees at our office) but I've been thinking about getting back into programming again.

One of my main questions is free lance programming. I really fucking hate the whole 9-5 thing (Especially since mine is more 8-7 a lot of days), and have always wanted to just do shit from home. I mean, I understand you're putting in just as much if not more work in for less money, but it's also at your leisure. I understand this is not a "get quick rich scheme" but I do not need much money at all (I could live off 1k a month, that's just 12k a year, although optimally I'd certainly like more). I know there are a few websites out there for freelancers and people who need them, but you're also looking at a lot of competition and I'm wonder if there's enough buyers out there to actually let it sustain on it's own rather that using it only on the side for extra cash. I would assume that website building and maintenance would be the main thing freelances are looking for, so I guess HTML and PHP are the main codes that need to be known? I haven't worked on websites in nearly 10 years so I'm really not sure what the new "hip" thing is.

If I were to go into a company, just how well does it pay? Since I have my doubts of freelance working, my other way of getting out of the whole 9-5 thing is by investing. But in order to make money like that, you need to spend money...so you actually fucking NEED money to start with. IS doesn't pay anywhere NEAR what I was imagining it would pay.

And then what about education...from the sounds of it from Aurik earlier in the thread, you don't really even need a degree, you just have to show them you can code? I mean, I'd certainly go and take some classes (Definitely found classes a lot better to learn from then learning on your own) but it'd suck having to go for a degree haha, especially since I'd still be working full time.

So, yeah, any suggestion/advice would be greatly appreciated <3

[Octavious]

And then what about education...from the sounds of it from Aurik earlier in the thread, you don't really even need a degree, you just have to show them you can code? I mean, I'd certainly go and take some classes (Definitely found classes a lot better to learn from then learning on your own) but it'd suck having to go for a degree haha, especially since I'd still be working full time.

So, yeah, any suggestion/advice would be greatly appreciated <3

IMO, at least get some form of education on the subject, be it community college or something else so you can pick up some of the new trends. JavaScript, PHP, HTML, AJAX would be a few things you would need if you're looking into developing web sites. Some knowledge of a Query Language might assist you as well depending on how much you're wanting to get into it. Anymore, websites could be very straight forward and simple but they're usually complex beasts on the hood. It's not too bad once you start picking everything up. I did web design for the last 2 years as a Freshmen & Soph in College for internships and it was ok. Personally as an Engineering student I don't really like it as I love coding software applications as opposed to web apps etc. GL w/it all.

[Darkslitter]

a little late, but for when mrbob is needed again:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9...bsymbolme0.png

[MisterBob]

a little late, but for when mrbob is needed again:
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9...bsymbolme0.png

This is indeed the appropriate method of calling for my assistance