Mysteries of the Mighty Barbarians.

[Cyn]

What's wrong with both of them being glass cannons?

[Roranora]

icu main d3 thread

oh and maintenance, good stuff

oh well, luv@u bg. we better than official forums General Discussion obviously

[Eanae]

DH should not be able to take the same hits as a monk or barb... You don't need to be taking all those hits since you should be constantly moving. 3-4 hits worth of survivability should be more than enough wiggle room with all the gtfo skills DH has access to.

[Kurp]

Fully agree, one hit KO's are probably the majority of my deaths, but I don't mind throwing myself at something really hard to kill it, instead of doing something easier that poses no challenge.

The problem with a DH's survivability, is no matter how you gear, you will never come even close to being able to take half the hits a monk/barb can, with their built in passives, and passives that increase their healing, tanking effectiveness, or cause a tanking stat (such as a resist or vitality) to effect another region of their gameplay (barbs getting armor out of vit, or monks being able to stack an off-resist for basically twice the "all resistance" on an item.

Next is item weights - while it's a no brainer for a monk or barb to go tanky, get life on hit, and generally become unkillable, while killing slowly, a demon hunter's option is generally kill or be killed, with smoke screen being your only viable hope for escape or living. A demon hunters life blood is figuring out how to survive with...let's say 5 smoke screen per preparation(5 1.5 second bursts of invulnerability). For example on Izual, when he does his ice aoe, it hits for 75000 - meaning I'd be required to get a rather large sum of resists (or in this case stack cold resist) and health to survive it. However, due to an item only being able to support 6 total different properties, I'm forced to choose between living and damage, while melee classes typically only need to worry about living.

Just to add some more to this: While demon hunters have a relatively low entry point to inferno (meaning, they don't require that much gear, since they can kite and have invulnerabilities), their survival does not drastically increase as gear goes up in the same manner that a barbarian and monks does. To offer an example - I was soloing act 2-4 inferno roughly a week after release, while my melee friends were stuck in act 1, barely doing a "little" in act 2. Fast forward 20 mil worth of gold to the monk, and he can solo diablo at this point without having to move pretty much, only out of the jail things. He just doesn't take damage since his resists are so high, coupled with LoH, and other monk abilities that make it possible to reduce incoming damage. I still get 1 shot, while dealing roughly 4x as much damage as before.

I agree mostly with what you say about DH. I think you should compare them to Wizards more than Barbarians and Monks though. Wizards scale well with resist and VIT gear due to Force and Prismatic armor. DH lacks that completely. That invulnerability on Smokescreen is always going to be a balance mess.

[miokomioko]

Yeah, I'm going to have to say that any rogue/archer/thief-like class with an ability focus on evasion/trapping is going to be a "glass cannon" by default.

The thing that's odd is that Wizard is less of a "glass cannon" than Demon Hunter because of all of its straight damage reduction abilities... as opposed to damage evasion (even with Glass Cannon set).

[Slott]

I never suggested that a DH should be as tanky as a monk or a barbarian, however being able to take 4 hits in act 3/4 inferno is something extremely difficult for a DH to pull off, since you're forced to choose between either gearing for those hits, and doing shitty damage, or doing great damage, and you can take 1-2 hits tops.

[Lordender]

Am I the only one who wants to see a spin off movie with Lyndon, The Scoundrel? I think that would be fanfuckingtastic. I could careless about a WoW movie now, Lyndon is probably the best personality Blizzard ever came up with, the shit he says is hilarious compared to any other follower. He reminds me of that dickhead you had in your FFXI LS that didn't hide the fact he was a lootwhore and tried to hit on every chick who talked in ventrillo.

[Kurp]

I never suggested that a DH should be as tanky as a monk or a barbarian, however being able to take 4 hits in act 3/4 inferno is something extremely difficult for a DH to pull off, since you're forced to choose between either gearing for those hits, and doing shitty damage, or doing great damage, and you can take 1-2 hits tops.

I'm not sure if this was directed at me or not. I just think that they look towards the Wizard model, which I think they did pretty well with overall.

What I would personally like is a DH with cooldowns that scale with defenses that are more powerful than what Wizard has as passives and long cooldowns (like Teleport), but leave them with gaps in protection. Similar to Smokescreen (but less ridiculous) and better than Shadow power. Active abilities that actually promote the use of defensive gear somehow.

[Raldo]

How high is the dodge% for well-geared DHs? My DH is only 44 at the moment, so I'm not going to try to guess. Judging by the effects of their base stat, I imagine their intent was for them to mostly be an evasion tank, but that's still a failure if they can't even take a handful of hits.

Edit: Sorry, I don't mean "tank", I just mean evasion was intended to be its primary means of defense.

[miokomioko]

Am I the only one who wants to see a spin off movie with Lyndon, The Scoundrel? I think that would be fanfuckingtastic. I could careless about a WoW movie now, Lyndon is probably the best personality Blizzard ever came up with, the shit he says is hilarious compared to any other follower. He reminds me of that dickhead you had in your FFXI LS that didn't hide the fact he was a lootwhore and tried to hit on every chick who talked in ventrillo.

Not gonna' lie, I full-time Lyndon primarily for his dialog (even though I've heard every line about a billion times over).

Kormac and Eirena just have zero personality.

Speaking of... Is there a way to disable just your own character's ultra-repetitive dialog from actions like massive blows and getting healed? Good lord that gets annoying.

YOUR DEFENSES ARE NOTHING! YOU DARE ATTACK ME?! YOU DIDN'T SEE THAT COMING, DID YOU?

[Pikarya]

Yeah its called options.

[miokomioko]

Ummm... Are you being a smartass just to be a smartass because as far as I have seen, there is no option to only disable that type of dialogue like I was asking.

If there is, my apologies, and I'll check it out when I get home. Until then, googlin' is proving worthless.

[Pikarya]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2vl4s9y.jpg

[Raldo]

Nice try, but not what was asked for. He wants to hear the inter-character banter and/or story, but not the stupid "I am healed" shit.

Speaking of... Is there a way to disable just your own character's ultra-repetitive dialog from actions like massive blows and getting healed? Good lord that gets annoying.

[Pikarya]

You can have nothing or you can have it all. Take your pick.

[Julian]

Re: 1 shotting in act 3/4, blizzard already said they were going to scale the difficulty down a little bit.

Re: character voices/options, "Everything or nothing" is a terrible safe face answer. There's nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong on an internet forum.

[Pikarya]

Re: character voices/options, "Everything or nothing" is a terrible safe face answer. There's nothing wrong with admitting you were wrong on an internet forum.

Don't see where I'm wrong. You can either turn off all voices so you don't hear anything. Or you can leave them on so your ears can bleed.

I mean if you really don't like it you can go here to suggest differently.

[Ezek]

Zzzz, already don't die often as it is since I farm exclusively in x5 NV Cydea/Azmodan (only die if I'm distracted by something I'm watching on my other screen) and Whimsy (nearly impossible to die). I'm interested in seeing if I can actually live past a hit in the damage reduction patch in the future. I have a Dex/Vit/All resist set (ever piece has said stats outside of my weapon + quiver) that plants me firmly at 41k HP and ~400 all resist and I still got one shot by spearchucker in A3 so I ended up banking it for my upcoming Monk.

As I'm sure others have already mentioned, DHs don't really have any passives or abilities that increases our resistance to damage like other classes, which is why it's so much harder to gear for a survivability set. I can see a Shadow Power + Gloom tanking set working out, but the Discipline cost on Shadow Power is the same as SS.

[Deadgye]

Loving these patch notes. They addressed many of the things I had a problem with. There are only two more things I can think of that I really want fixed. And those are decreasing weapon dps scaling, and drastically reducing the life leech reduction.

[Dimmauk]

Use SP+gloom and SS?