Mysteries of the Mighty Barbarians.

[djzombie]

I am really not worried about this AH system. This is a game I will play for fun - I will not spend real money on it. You can use whatever convoluted reasoning you want to equate anything in game to real money - but I'm not going to be spending my hard earned cash in game.

It is a shame though, that the development has been delayed this long because of a feature that no player really wants. (I don't claim to speak for every single diablo player, but this seems to be the general sentiment involving this RMT AH.)

[aurik]

Don't be fooled, this is a feature that is in such high demand that 3rd parties have been constructing elaborate systems to accomplish it for a long, long time.

[GRT]

Was always the case with d2, game still functions.

We'll see just how it functions, I guess. But please don't make selling heroin in a shady corner outside of a 7-Eleven the same as selling used furniture on eBay, it's (purposefully?) disingenious.

And I wonder how much truth there is to Blizz's statement that RMT won't affect the economy because it's between players. Gold is a self-confined currency in the game, but real world money is an outside value. Spending real money on an item that has never been sold for any kind of gold value is practically adding gold value to the circulation. Of course Blizz is smarter than me, but it seems to me like there is no way a flat transaction fee can eliminate that huge potential for continued inflation. It will have to be some kind of percentage, which I don't think Blizz has said they would do.

And I don't think they can reset the economy like they did in D2 by resetting ladders since people will have invested real money in the gold and gears they have. Hmm...


edit: clarification, not adding gold value, but adding amount of gold and decreasing its value

[Cheerios]

why am i gonna give a friend a piece of awesome gear when i can sell it for 100$?

Items won't bind in Diablo 3, so you can freely trade an item back and forth. Just lend it to a friend instead of giving it to them for keeps.

[Tajin]

If I purchase LSRBlade at $50 from the AH, there's no more gold in the system, and the seller wont be able to see $profit turn to gold unless he decides to buy $profit worth of gold, he could just use $profit to buy some item from the AH again, there is never gold involved in that.

[GRT]

I will not quote that so as to give you a chance to edit or delete what you wrote when you've come to your senses.

Hint: there is a direct currency exchange market in D3. Also, gold is not added to the economy at the exchange rate against real money being invested or even at the same time (that we know of). And that's according to Jay Wilson, something like "we want players to decide the value of gold."

[djzombie]

Don't be fooled, this is a feature that is in such high demand that 3rd parties have been constructing elaborate systems to accomplish it for a long, long time.

I see your point I guess, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Tajin]

Last I checked the only way to turn Dollars into gold, was to buy gold from another player via the AH. So my post stands, unless proven otherwise.

[Insanecyclone]

[geno]

Jesus I looked at that picture for like 45 seconds before I saw his face.

[Tajin]

I was looking at the time remaining thinking it was the price, haha, bricks were shat.

[GRT]

Last I checked the only way to turn Dollars into gold, was to buy gold from another player via the AH. So my post stands, unless proven otherwise.

Sigh, oh well, I did give you a chance.

Turning dollars into gold is not the only way to determine the value of gold, but also assets with which both forms of currency can be used to purchase. Have you been catching the news about why the US is so pissed off at China for manipulating the value of the yuan? It's the same thing here. The value of China's exports are determined by the dominating currency, which artifitially inflates the value of the asset against the lesser currency, decreasing its value. In D3, that's gold.

[elison]

I can't believe people are still complaining about the AH system. I'm more disturbed they removed skill/stat points from the game. That was a big thing in Diablo II, especially when it came to PvP. It's a huge customization feature that really should not have been removed at all.

So basically PvP will be based around whoever has the better combination of runestones when Diablo II had tons of different variations that simply revolved around being able to customize my character the way I wanted. Shit is so lame and such a turn off.

[miokomioko]

Wait, what... They plan on allowing the buying/selling of entire characters on the AH? I guess I missed that?

[geno]

Turning gold into real money to make a purchase on the RMT AH is involving yourself in RMT even if you are not turning a profit. And not everyone find gradification knowing they can sell a good item they found for cash.

On the first point, no it is not. At least, in my mind its not. It's important to make that distinction because it is COMPLETELY a matter of perspective and even semantics. There is no clear and distinct line between gold and real dollars so long as one can be consistently exchanged for the other. Someone without a bank account and with $60 to buy the game or w/e can make consistent use of the RMT AH without ever spending OR EVEN RECEIVING a real life dollar from it. It's as fake to him as the gold in the other auction, just an arbitrary amount of online wealth accumulated over his gameplay. It should start at zero and steadily rise and fall as things are bought and sold and goldsinks nickel and dime him on the way.

And for the gratification point, you misunderstand me. I was talking about solely the ability to actually sell the goddamn item, not necessarily sell it for real money (though I've already established where I sell it doesn't particularly matter). In D2 if you wanted to make any use of what looked like a really good item for some other class, you had to first decide upon its value (often using sites like d2jsp, even if you never plan on selling it for actual dollars at all), just to find out what its worth. Then you had to hunt different trade games, hopefully find a trade of equal or greater (although very often lesser) value that may have been more use to you or at least more easy to trade. And then on top of all that you had to worry about constant scamming and assholes griefing the shit out of you for no particular reason. In D3 there is an ANONYMOUS auction house that will bring all similar items together, help you decide value, sell and collect profits (real or imaginary) and then move on with your day without even having to talk to a single asshole. I mean, if that's still your thing, I'm pretty sure they still support trading, but I always hated how this shit was done in D2 and it turned me off to the point where I didn't even give a shit a lot of the time I saw a semi-rare drop because I just didn't want to go through the hassle.

[Insanecyclone]

I can't believe people are still complaining about the AH system. I'm more disturbed they removed skill/stat points from the game. That was a big thing in Diablo II, especially when it came to PvP. It's a huge customization feature that really should not have been removed at all.

So basically PvP will be based around whoever has the better combination of runestones when Diablo II had tons of different variations that simply revolved around being able to customize my character the way I wanted. Shit is so lame and such a turn off.

Removal of skill points like you said pretty much turned me off the instant I heard of that. And this real money stuff is the icing on the cake. Eagerly awaiting Torchlight 2 and playing it's multi.

[GRT]

On the first point, no it is not. At least, in my mind its not. It's important to make that distinction because it is COMPLETELY a matter of perspective and even semantics. There is no clear and distinct line between gold and real dollars so long as one can be consistently exchanged for the other. Someone without a bank account and with $60 to buy the game or w/e can make consistent use of the RMT AH without ever spending OR EVEN RECEIVING a real life dollar from it. It's a fake to him as the gold in the other auction, just an arbitrary amount of online wealth accumulated over his gameplay. It should start at zero and steadily rise and fall as things are bought and sold and goldsinks nickel and dime him on the way.

No it's not just perspective or semantics, it has serious practical implications. By participating in RMT, you reinforce the practice in all its glory (easy to use?) and vice (cheap labor, inflation etc) simply by adding to the trade volume. Think about it in terms of a business: profit and loss don't make it a business, cashflow does.

[geno]

Removal of skill points like you said pretty much turned me off the instant I heard of that. And this real money stuff is the icing on the cake. Eagerly awaiting Torchlight 2 and playing it's multi.

I could care less about the removal of stat points, there was always an optimal allocation (ALL VIT LOLOLOL) and if you did it wrong, you were worse or planned poorly. And unlike differing skill builds, there was no confusion or debate about what was better or more fun to play, there was just either correct, or incorrect and it was at best a testament to your planning and max-min'ing skills.

For the skill stuff, I'm still undecided. I want to see how it will play out because they just seem to have a wildly different system overall. There is a lot of customization (pick6/20active, 3/15passive), but for both skills and traits it seems way too easy to respec kind of killing replayability. But with the ADDITIONAL customization runes offer, that may not be entirely the case. It still seems unlikely you'd ever really need to level another of the same class, but it does seem like you will be able to draw a lot more out of the one you did level than if builds were based on skills alone. I'll wait and see how it plays out to decide if I like it or not.

[geno]

No it's not just perspective or semantics, it has serious practical implications. By participating in RMT, you reinforce the practice in all its glory (easy to use?) and vice (cheap labor, inflation etc) simply by adding to the trade volume. Think about it in terms of a business: profit and loss don't make it a business, cashflow does.

I'm saying it has literally no effect on the player, you are saying it does have an effect on the industry. We are at an impasse because we are not arguing the same point.

[Tajin]

Sigh, oh well, I did give you a chance.
Turning dollars into gold is not the only way to determine the value of gold, but also assets with which both forms of currency can be used to purchase. Have you been catching the news about why the US is so pissed off at China for manipulating the value of the yuan? It's the same thing here. The value of China's exports are determined by the dominating currency, which artificially inflates the value of the asset against the lesser currency, decreasing its value. In D3, that's gold.

I was arguing semantics then, again I'm not messing with all the economics talk that will probably spawn a thesis or two down the road. And even then it shouldn't matter to you or the regular folk, unless they decide to play the AH and calculate trends and all that fancy stuff.

Edit: And of course if you sell/buy only on goldAH or rmtAH, there's not need to worry/care about exchange rates, either you have enough to buy it or you dont.

As for the skill points I'm probably the only one glad they removed it because I've always suck at creating characters