Teaching English Abroad- Japan/Korea/Taiwan

[Beckwin]

my turn for BG Consulting Services.

I've been doing a little research over the past few months about teaching english abroad, specifically in Asia (seems to be a good region for decent pay and availability of jobs). I've got some wanderlust building up and I've been to Europe before, so this sounds pretty damn interesting/exciting as a learning opportunity and travel/cultural experience. I'm also interested in the teaching aspect, which is something I've also been considering for awhile.

Financially the chief concern would be living decently with the teaching salary, which seems pretty damn easy for all three options, although Korea's Won is undergoing massive inflation and Japan has relatively higher cost of living. Rough monthly salaries are 250k Yen, 1.8-2.2m won (housing provided), and whatever $1600-$1800 is in Taiwan's currency. Saving money seems like a possibility, although the most wouldn't necessarily be the decider (I'm financially OK right now; savings would go to going back to school for another degree or masters in a year or two).

So basically, I'm asking if any BG posters have done the teaching english in asia thing, or have experience otherwise living and working there. Honestly all three countries are similarly attractive to me, and I'm having a hard time deciding which one to pursue. Chinese>Japanese>Korean would seem to be the languages in order of global usefulness (I'd plan to learn the language as well as I could in a year's time); Korea>Taiwan>Japan for ease in getting a position; and Taiwan/Korea>Japan for saving.

advice/experiences plz

[eunhye]

Never call your students, idiots. No matter how idiotic they are. You can call me an idiot, but never your students.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/

[0ni0n]

I wouldn't suggest Japan if you are making anything less than $2500 a month, unless you are planning to live on cup noodles. Even then, you are practically living in poverty with minimal disposal income if any at all. Taiwan or Korea will be a better choice if finance is concerned. Otherwise, Japan will probably the most interesting as long as you don't mind paying for it.

Regarding language, you probably won't be able to learn Chinese in a year, not even in 2. It's a simple language in terms of grammar, because there is no past, present or future tense and all that jazz, but the pronunciation is horrific and probably the toughest of all. Japanese is the easiest to pick up among all three.

Given all the above, if you don't mind the money issue, you should go with Japan. If not, either taiwan or korea is alright.

[Restrat]

do Hess in taiwan. it's the best school program. you have a lot of options, from full time kindergarten to part time language school. plenty of spots in Taipei and Tainan. They set you up with your room and roommates too, and Taiwan is the coolest of those countries!

[Beckwin]

That's a good link eunhye, I've actually been browsing Dave's lately to gather info.

I'm kinda gathering that Japan would be rough financially, and the teaching environment seems really formal/professional(as in, attire).

And yeah, I don't expect fluency in a year, but more or less a basic conversational level with at least some romanized reading ability. korean sounds neat because they have a widely used romanized alphabet (Hangul?).

[Loryne]

Adding my 2 cents, or 2 yen as the case may be:

I am currently participating in the JET Program (Japan Exchange and Teaching) and while there are many stereotypes of Japan, the Japanese, and the Japanese educational system, I must emphasize that every situation is different. Granted this isn't terribly helpful, but I can only share my own experiences.

Before coming here, I was told many different stories ranging from "Oh my god, they are super strict and I don't understand them at all! I want to shoot them and myself!" to "I quickly became part of the community and everyone loved me and the kids are the best!", etc etc. What I quickly learned was that every situation was indeed different. I teach both English and French at a High School of ~500 students. I have 14 classes a week, many of which are the same group of students, so I've really gotten to know and love (most) of them. I consider myself lucky because I have A) another foreigner that I teach some classes with, so we can split the work preparing for those classes, and B) very understanding and open teachers who loving teaching, English, and the kids.

I get paid ~250,000 yen a month, which, for me, is more than enough. The only finanicially difficult part was when I first moved here and had to pay key money for my apartment and other up-front charges. Now that I've settled into a routine and life here, I find that I have plenty of money to spend and a lot to save as well. My rent is ~55,000 a month, but I also have a larger, western-style apartment in a newer apartment building. From what I've heard, price/living arrangement varies a lot depending on where in Japan you live. I have a friend in Hokkaido who pays half of what I do and has a whole house to herself. For me, cost of living has been pretty low. Granted I live in a smaller, less populous prefecture, but if you want to save money, there are countless ways to get stuff cheaper (100 yen stores, shopping at the right time of day,e tc).

For me, the main issue has not been money, but rather adjusting to a culture and system so radically different from my own American upbringing. Because this is my first formal teaching job, I've found it pretty easy to adapt to the Japanese schooling sytem, though I don't necessarily agree with many of the practices and the rationale behind them. I find it tends to be personal interactions with other teachers and people that have given me the most trouble and stress. I contribute much of this to "culture shock," as I've begun getting used to the differences in day-to-day life in a completely different culture.

I feel like I've rambled a bit, and I apologize, but my goal was to give a well-rounded, overall look at one English-teaching program option. If you have any more questions, please ask!

[Correction]

JET is the best way to get a job teaching English in Japan. They are the best paid and often get subsidies for their housing.

However it's a 3 year stint. Unless you're fluent in Japanese and your employers love you and the stars align just right you're not going to get a fourth year or beyond in the program. This is a restriction placed on the type of visa you get, and anything past a third year requires a visa change, a long and involved process.

If you're happy with just three years in Japan JET is the way to go. Go now while the going's good, the program is shrinking due to budget constraints and cheaper competition from private firms who hire expatriated foreigners living with spouses in Japan (i.e. don't have to sponsor a visa/housing for them).

If you're looking for something longer than a 3 year stay your best bet is still JET, if only for the money. Save it all and start looking for another job with a private firm that can sponsor your visa past three years and get ready for life after a paycut. You'll want to start your search after only one or two years with JET.

[Senoska]

JET is the best way to get a job teaching English in Japan. They are the best paid and often get subsidies for their housing.

However it's a 3 year stint. Unless you're fluent in Japanese and your employers love you and the stars align just right you're not going to get a fourth year or beyond in the program. This is a restriction placed on the type of visa you get, and anything past a third year requires a visa change, a long and involved process.

If you're happy with just three years in Japan JET is the way to go. Go now while the going's good, the program is shrinking due to budget constraints and cheaper competition from private firms who hire expatriated foreigners living with spouses in Japan (i.e. don't have to sponsor a visa/housing for them).

If you're looking for something longer than a 3 year stay your best bet is still JET, if only for the money. Save it all and start looking for another job with a private firm that can sponsor your visa past three years and get ready for life after a paycut. You'll want to start your search after only one or two years with JET.

JET is a 1-5 year program, and its not up to the schoolboard really unless you fuck up big time. If you want to stay all 5 years you can.

Jet is your best bet, but get on the application like right now if you're interested. You only have two months to apply. The down part of JET is you can't really pick where you live, and chances are really high you will end up out in the boondocks. If you want a real culture experience, I would say this is as real as it gets.

This is possibly the most informative JET vblog on the net. http://www.youtube.com/user/myargonauts

I intend to do JET once I graduate, seems like fun, pay is great, and usually have no problem helping you while in Japan.

Good luck

[aduidarnenye]

Don't come to South Korea unless you've got nerves of steel. I've had a lot of problems getting my contract honoured (it took almost five months to get my health insurance from my school). The workload can be extremely heavy and unrewarding, and last minute schedule/class changes are unsurprising. The constant lies about work duties and contract obligations from the hagwon (private cram school) owners can be extremely stressful. I've met very few expats in Korea who actually enjoy working here. You'd be better off in a more Western friendly country like Japan or a better paying country like Taiwan. I'm going to one or the other as soon as my contract is over.

[Ksandra]

I was going to do jet years ago, had the app n' everything, with my teacher showing me what to do. Then my parents guilt tripped me out of it to no end. -.-;


Do it Beckwin, I always regret not doing it.

[Correction]

JET is a 1-5 year program, and its not up to the schoolboard really unless you fuck up big time. If you want to stay all 5 years you can.

This is true but the 'Instructor' visa you get when you join JET is only good for three years and cannot be renewed. To stay past three years you need a new visa type, one that allows you to continue working in Japan. For most this means changing it to a spousal visa (if you're lucky) or, in most cases you get a 'Specialist' visa which restricts the kinds of jobs you can have. I think to teach English the required one is Humanities, and that one needs a sponsor (your employer or, if you're really really rich, you) and renewal every year.

If your school board likes you you can get them to continue to sponsor your new visa type. But these occurrences are rare.

[Beckwin]

From what I can gather, you can get fucked over or have a nice position with a decent boss in any country, with Japan having the best odds and Korea having the worst. I think I'm gonna apply in all 3 countries, and just be thorough about any position I may be offered- for Korea especially, I'd want to talk/email a current foreign teacher at the school.

Taiwan kinda seems to be the least advanced and generally dirtiest, but it probably wouldn't be too unbearable or anything.

A bonus for Japan is that a really good friend of mine just got back from a study abroad (got a Japanese minor) so I'd be able to get some lessons/practice in before going.

[Octavious]

www.outpostnine.com
^this, has some fun stuff to read about teaching abroad.

[sekaran]

Deadline for JET is November 25.. good luck to you, competition!

[Darus Grey]

Generally I'd consider China to be the best in terms of pay/quality of life(well inside the country itself, not in terms of saving money to turn into USD). It's not "a lot" in USD, but it's a fuckton inside China, equivalent of a 6figure job in the US in terms of your purchasing power in the country.

Korea/Taiwan is the best generally in terms of actually getting paid money to save and take back with you(and I'd consider Korean the easiest language to pick up).

Japan is best if you actually want to be in a first-world country well you do it, and contrary to what others have said, you can still make quite a bit as long as your're willing to:
A: accept a slightly lower quality of housing and
B: travel a fair distance to keep your rent very low(though this depends on the area).

If you choose Japan I'd personally avoid major cities, or look at your offers and do research on the cost of living in each area compared to your salary. Though depending on your credentials you may not have a lot of choices.

That's about as much as I know, I'll be doing over-seas teaching again this coming year(in France), but my linguistics education lets me teach at the college level so I've never actually delt with any of these programs(I just contact or get contacted by schools and universities directly).

[Senoska]

This is true but the 'Instructor' visa you get when you join JET is only good for three years and cannot be renewed. To stay past three years you need a new visa type, one that allows you to continue working in Japan. For most this means changing it to a spousal visa (if you're lucky) or, in most cases you get a 'Specialist' visa which restricts the kinds of jobs you can have. I think to teach English the required one is Humanities, and that one needs a sponsor (your employer or, if you're really really rich, you) and renewal every year.

If your school board likes you you can get them to continue to sponsor your new visa type. But these occurrences are rare.

You're wrong. http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/te...hyorui/03.html

Getting a work visa isn't hard. You don't need a "special visa," just a normal work visa. I know many many many JETs and a few of them staying the full five years. It is not a problem, at all.

[Correction]

You're wrong. http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/english/te...hyorui/03.html

Getting a work visa isn't hard. You don't need a "special visa," just a normal work visa. I know many many many JETs and a few of them staying the full five years. It is not a problem, at all.

I'm not wrong

It's not a problem if you have an employer willing to sponsor your visa. This is the number one thing you need and if you have it there is never a problem but you still have to change your status of residence to one of the working visas listed in the URL above. There is no generic 'working visa,' because your status of residence in Japan determines the kinds of jobs you can take. The only visas that offer full flexibility in picking a job in Japan are those tied to being married or directly related to a Japanese citizen.

[Beckwin]

well hate to spoil it for you two, staying in Japan for more than 3 years probably isn't in the cards for me (or if it was, I'd be worrying about it in 3 years).

I applied to Hess; gonna hit up a Korean recruiter and try JET/AEON I guess.

Does anyone have experience living in Taiwan?

[aduidarnenye]

You should know that if you go to Korea or China you won't be able to play FFXI through a lot of the major ISPs. I had to play off a proxy until I found an ISP that could connect to FFXI. I don't know about the connections in Taiwan. I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem in Japan though.

I know it may sound silly and shallow to want to be able to play FFXI while teaching abroad, but trust me, there's only so many museums, old palaces, and nightclubs one can endure (or before one's liver gives out). You'll want some kind of connection to your life back home to keep things 'normal'.

[Takedown3]

one of my ex's did this in taiwan and said she was making wicked bank, and it was fun to teach kids since most of them seemed pretty nice altho she could have gotten lucky

heard some pretty horrible stories about her male tourist friends getting horribly beaten in some clubs multiple times (hospital etc)

pollution was also pretty bad there according to her

other then that if you want the money and the experience go for just be safe and make sure you work out some before you go so you aren't a softie that can get owned easy

edit: forgot to mention that this chick had no background in any teaching environment and was not all that smart (altho gave incredibly good head and really knew how to fuck does that count?) so you don't need any skillset besides speaking english altho im sure some background might help