Starcraft II, 3 seperate games??

[Bweigelt]

They did, then they saw the possibility to make even more money.



And people who think 60 new missions make two new game are pushing it. The development cost is ridiculously low once the game engine is completed and beta tested. Unless there is 3h worth of awesome CG in each game, I'm not sure it's worth the price tag.

How can you say that without even knowing what the price is? If it's 50$ for the protoss and zerg campaigns then sure it's probably not worth it, but if it's closer to 20-30$ then it's no different than any other expansion pack.

[Waef]

If the price was different, then you'd have people buying the cheaper ones just to play online. I imagine they'll keep the price the same so that they make the same amount of money no matter which one(s) they buy.

[Maxxthepenguin]

They did, then they saw the possibility to make even more money.

So they betrayed the game design ideals that so appealed to me. THANKS A LOT GUYS ^_^

I can't believe I'm so frustrated with Blizzard, who has long been one of the most respectable developers out there.

And people who think 60 new missions make two new game are pushing it. The development cost is ridiculously low once the game engine is completed and beta tested. Unless there is 3h worth of awesome CG in each game, I'm not sure it's worth the price tag.

Uh, kind of. RTS missions are notoriously hard to construct, test, script, etc.

[Sonomaa]

Im going to laugh when the terran mission disk is so packed full of awesome and win that people slap themselves stupid at how much they made dicks out of themselves over it.

They already said its going to have a mini-protoss campaign, I guarantee itll have a mini zerg one as well

[Bweigelt]

If the price was different, then you'd have people buying the cheaper ones just to play online. I imagine they'll keep the price the same so that they make the same amount of money no matter which one(s) they buy.

They aren't being released at the same time. The whole reason they are doing this is so they can release the multi-player portion on time. Doing the Single-Player part of an RTS is very difficult to make, and for them to get the protoss and zerg campaigns completed for release would either delay the game significantly, or the campaigns would be very dumbed down.

[Sythe]

To add to the above post aren't they going to be adding multi-player upgrades as well with each release. So i guess with that they may try to sell each one full price 0.o

[Correction]

Why are people guessing that the price will be fifty bucks per product on one page then feigning outrage as if the price were fact on the second?

Calm yourselves young padawan. The truth shall be known soon.

[Waef]

They aren't being released at the same time. The whole reason they are doing this is so they can release the multi-player portion on time. Doing the Single-Player part of an RTS is very difficult to make, and for them to get the protoss and zerg campaigns completed for release would either delay the game significantly, or the campaigns would be very dumbed down.

Ahh, yeah good point. But still, for people who don't buy one until 2 or 3 are already out, they'd still spring for the cheaper one if the price was different (if they were only interested in multiplayer), which is why I'm guessing all will be the same price.

[Kaylia]

Uh, kind of. RTS missions are notoriously hard to construct, test, script, etc.

Umm, that's quite the opposite. Once AI, physics engine and your editor is completed, scripting mission should be easy.

There is a lot of copy pasting going on, and after making the first 30 missions, doing 30 more probably wouldnt be that bad. Of course, we can't really comment until we actually the final product, but I don't think they will come up with 90 completely different mechanics for 90 missions.

[Akun]

Ahh, yeah good point. But still, for people who don't buy one until 2 or 3 are already out, they'd still spring for the cheaper one if the price was different (if they were only interested in multiplayer), which is why I'm guessing all will be the same price.

What would be very cool is if they make some kind of a rebate for people who bought Terran campaign and buy the next one/two versions. That way people cant buy zerg/protoss for cheap multi, and makes it cheaper to buy all 3 (in total)

[Waef]

Yeah, possibly where you can pay to download the campaigns?

[Kiarax]

Interesting interview here: http://www.mymym.com/en/coverage/529/18.html
He says they're expansions. And the first is just the same as a full game like SC1 or Warcraft 3, but instead of 3 small campaigns they're just going for 1 big one. The next release will add new units and probably tools to the map editor, and a whole new campaign. Still no word on the price, but it seems like you're gonna have to buy all 3 just for the new units and such.

[geno]

Umm, that's quite the opposite. Once AI, physics engine and your editor is completed, scripting mission should be easy.

There is a lot of copy pasting going on, and after making the first 30 missions, doing 30 more probably wouldnt be that bad. Of course, we can't really comment until we actually the final product, but I don't think they will come up with 90 completely different mechanics for 90 missions.

I don't know if you've read into or seen anything from SC2, but you are considerably wrong lol. The single-player campaign construct for Terran (only one shown so far, for now obvious reasons) is completely different than any other RTS. It has tons of real time cinematics (this is probably less obvious to anyone else who didn't see a whole panel dedicated to its features yesterday). In their earlier interviews they also mention that Zerg and Protoss could work in very different ways. In addition, there will likely be plenty of the crazy pre-rendered cinematics per game as well. Additionally, the Terran game WILL contain mini-zerg and protoss campaigns so there will be some single-player time to learn the races. They aren't skimping on anything, and this was evident when the designer mentioned at the panel that this approach was nicknamed "Go big or go home."

You're right to say they don't have to start from scratch for each set of 30 missions (I assume that's the point you are making), but no game with sequels/expansions do, including virtually every Blizzard game. These other parts of the trilogy are going to be expansions in every sense of the word.

[Kaylia]

I dont really want to have an hypothetical argument about what Starcraft might or might not be, but the games format still make it an obvious money cow. I'm not blamming them, but it's always insulting when they do this.

On the bright side, if they are making so many missions, it's probably to build an universe around this world, and eventually make a MMORPG. I can bet there will be a lot of critters, heroes, planets and everything.

[Sythe]

Your right. With a nickname like that how could they not deliver...

[Maxxthepenguin]

Umm, that's quite the opposite. Once AI, physics engine and your editor is completed, scripting mission should be easy.

There is a lot of copy pasting going on, and after making the first 30 missions, doing 30 more probably wouldnt be that bad. Of course, we can't really comment until we actually the final product, but I don't think they will come up with 90 completely different mechanics for 90 missions.

It's not a technical question, it's a creative question (though the creative answers do pose technical problems.) Making a series of 10 missions that stays varied, increases in difficulty consistently, gives new toys as you progress, is fun, and conquers all the other design problems is extremely difficult. Doing it with 30 would be mindblowingly difficult.

[Kaylia]

It's probably easier than you think to balance difficulty in those missions. You just need to build a first version of the map with every major setting and try to beat it once. If you win too easily, add more monsters on the way, increase computer level by one, or lower your ressource. It's not like you have one chance to make the map right.

The concept behind every map has to be creative to some extent, but I don't think they can innovate much more than they did in WC3. There is 5-6 differents type of maps (normal map, indoor map, survival map, capture the w/e map, timed objective) and you will cycle through them for 30 maps.

In my opinion what really made blizzard's RTS stand apart is the story and environment. As long you get to see something new every mission, it won't feel like you are doing the same thing 30 times.

[geno]

It's probably easier than you think to balance difficulty in those missions. You just need to build a first version of the map with every major setting and try to beat it once. If you win too easily, add more monsters on the way, increase computer level by one, or lower your ressource. It's not like you have one chance to make the map right.

The concept behind every map has to be creative to some extent, but I don't think they can innovate much more than they did in WC3. There is 5-6 differents type of maps (normal map, indoor map, survival map, capture the w/e map, timed objective) and you will cycle through them for 30 maps.

In my opinion what really made blizzard's RTS stand apart is the story and environment. As long you get to see something new every mission, it won't feel like you are doing the same thing 30 times.

I actually agree with you here in that I don't think the actual missions require that much work from a development standpoint (comparatively speaking at least). After the story is set, and how they want to accomplish that story is broken down into missions, it probably doesn't take them TOO long to do them.

I think the part that is slowing them down heavily though is the in between missions. Its not like SC1 where you go to the briefing screen or a short cinematic > briefing screen. You go back to a ship and can move about to interact with and learn more about other characters (which requires a tremendous amount of not only in game construction outside of the actual SC2 game engine, but also real-time rendered cinematics), as well as purchase and upgrade units/techs (this dynamic is basically like what SC1 did automatically when allowing you a little more of the tech tree as you got further in the game, except this time, you get to choose how you want to develop that tree), and plenty of other things. Also, the missions are not linear, and so keeping the story coherent in a player controlled direction isn't likely an easy task, with plenty of optional and easter egg missions to make matters even more difficult.

The way I understood it when they announced it was that they were having too much fun making the campaign for terran ridiculously epic and realized that if they did that for all the races, the game would not only be extremely long, it would take forever to finish. So they threw out a couple ideas, and this was the only one that allowed them both the freedom to make the terran story crazy epic without delaying the game.

That video posted earlier is also a good window into the thought process of Browder, the lead designer. The last question nails it on the head when Dustin realizes how the trilogy is being misinterpreted and mentions that they really do think of this as the game plus two expansion packs. Just like BW was, each new exp. packs will include a completely new single player campaign, new units/updates to multiplayer, and new art/textures for the World editor. Its just that there will be two of them, and all three portions of the game will have a different composure of (though equal number of) missions.

*I edited this a lot because I'm barely coherent after getting back from Blizzcon. The WC3/SC finals were both incredibly fun to watch, and the closing ceremonies were really good too (particularly the Orchestral concert of a bunch of Blizzard music). I even edited this edit because I managed to forget to mention that I'm done editing it.

[Kiarax]

You need to stop thinking of them as holding off on content to milk it more and just realize you'd be getting the exact same amount of content as usual. It's essentially like taking out the Undead, Night Elf and Human campaign from WC3 and replacing all of their missions of Orc ones. You're still getting the exact same amount of missions, they're just focusing on one race at a time to bring you a bigger story. They've also said there will be some Protoss single player mini-missions ontop of that. Did you say they were milking WC3 when they released The Frozen Throne? All they're doing is planning ahead. And price is still irrelevant, because I'm pretty sure they still haven't given a cost for each of them so far. You can parade around ridiculous prices all you like but until they actually announce the costs it means nothing.

[Kaylia]

Non linear mission is interesting, didn't know about it.

Anyway, I'm certain the game will be nothing but awesome. It's just that making mission for the other 2 races is going to be much easier for them. All the new system that were implemented for Terran will be easily adapted for Zerg and Protoss (they just need to change the interface, and maybe add 1-2 new palette to the terrain editor).

In the end, it all come down to price tag, and content, so we will see. I just hope I won't need lub to buy both expansion.

The way I understood it when they announced it was that they were having too much fun making the campaign for terran ridiculously epic and realized that if they did that for all the races, the game would not only be extremely long, it would take forever to finish. So they threw out a couple ideas, and this was the only one that allowed them both the freedom to make the terran story crazy epic without delaying the game.

I really hope the problem was the passionated developper who couldnt stop working, and not the marketting team. I want to believe them, but it's kinda hard to swallow.

Anyway, can't wait to play this game...they need to release it faster.

Did you say they were milking WC3 when they released The Frozen Throne?

I actually did, and it was only 1 expansion. Now it's 2 expansion announced right from the start.


At least, I can tell myself I won't have to wait 12 years to see the sequel