COR roll is a given amirite?

[Mikayla]

Even with sam's roll on 2handers though, do you get enough out of the lowest roll you'd accept to bring non sam's down to 5 hits? (Thinking it'd be harder since they don't get all the job traits/merits)

It would depend on if there's a Samurai in the party. If there is, then yeah, the boost is pretty significant. If not, even with two handers, there's really no sense in using the roll, especially if you're basing the usage of it on a bonus that's only going to apply a little under half the time.

edit: For clarification, the bare minimum of +STP that SAMs Roll gives with a Samurai in the party is +18, as opposed to +8 without. Unless you're counting unlucky numbers, which are +4 and +14 respectively, though with the unlucky being a 6, you'd have to be retarded to not roll off of it.

[Cream Soda]

Only time i really ever go 2hander is with polearm sam, otherwise I'm mainly going mnk and hmm idk if I could give up that war's roll (with war in pt of course) on that penta thrust cause its just awesome, lol. But the main reason I do brd/cor is because I know all cor's have their diff styles and diff rolls they want to use (Then theres the 2% that actually listen to requests)

[Delekii]

There is no sense in ever using sam roll over cor roll, even if it gives every DD a 5 hit setup. going from 6 hit to 5 hit means reaching your ws 17% faster. But, it doesn't make up for:

1. The fact that even if you are ready to ws 17% faster, it doesn't mean that it is worth wsing 17% faster (overkill etc). the 15% average on corsair roll applies to every kill, every time.

2. only a portion of your damage comes from weaponskills.

3. Store TP is on or off. You either get the benefit or you dont. If your DDs dont save a hit due to a bad roll or different amounts of store TP, they get nothing. In the case of a bad roll on cor roll, everyone in the party still benefits.

There are other reasons as well but those alone should be sufficient to explain why, again, unless sam roll (or any roll really) helps you keep chain where you otherwise wouldn't have, they aren't worth using over cor roll.

[Mikayla]

There is no sense in ever using sam roll over cor roll, even if it gives every DD a 5 hit setup. going from 6 hit to 5 hit means reaching your ws 17% faster. But, it doesn't make up for:

1. The fact that even if you are ready to ws 17% faster, it doesn't mean that it is worth wsing 17% faster (overkill etc). the 15% average on corsair roll applies to every kill, every time.

2. only a portion of your damage comes from weaponskills.

3. Store TP is on or off. You either get the benefit or you dont. If your DDs dont save a hit due to a bad roll or different amounts of store TP, they get nothing. In the case of a bad roll on cor roll, everyone in the party still benefits.

There are other reasons as well but those alone should be sufficient to explain why, again, unless sam roll (or any roll really) helps you keep chain where you otherwise wouldn't have, they aren't worth using over cor roll.

Unless you're responding to Yugl, no one past that has been suggesting that SAM roll is worth using over COR roll, lol.

[Sonomaa]

I never COR roll, inevitably somebody misses it and gets butt hurt, too much trouble.

Then again I have an ebody and a ridill, so coming on corsair is to other stuff

[Delekii]

Unless you're responding to Yugl, no one past that has been suggesting that SAM roll is worth using over COR roll, lol.

It was in response to Yugl, and in response in general to a discussion about the usage of sam roll.

[Dantrag]

Even with sam's roll on 2handers though, do you get enough out of the lowest roll you'd accept to bring non sam's down to 5 hits? (Thinking it'd be harder since they don't get all the job traits/merits)

every DD that goes /sam gets 5 hit /nin no but /sam yes. it was a lot of fun 3x war/sam w/ sam roll

[Thistle]

So CORs, what do you do?

I ask people what kind of rolls they want. 95% of the time the reply I get is complete silence, so I use my best judgement.

The 5% I get a reply I happily do whatever rolls people want.

And to the guy who can't hit everyone, you can always split your rolls. Roll on the main group then run to the mages and double up with them.

[Mikayla]

I ask people what kind of rolls they want. 95% of the time the reply I get is complete silence, so I use my best judgement.

The 5% I get a reply I happily do whatever rolls people want.

This.

[Vedder]

I thought it was a given that COR roll was standard for merit parties, so the situation the OP described is pretty crazy.

I realize that there are times 2x melee rolls are better, but whenever I'm in a top notch party I just give Chaos/Corsair's while the BRD gives Marchx2 and we're off to the races... even on Mamools that works fine, unless you are in a pickup/gimp party which I try to avoid.

[Kylen]

COR roll averages like 15% exp gain(varies with what roll you get, luck, etc). If another roll will increase your killspeed by more than 15% AND you have enough mobs to not run out with said additional roll, than that roll is better.

15% is a lower bound expected value that doesn't take Snake Eye or Fold into account. With Snake Eye up, the expected value is closer to 18%.

Unless a different roll would help you keep chain where you otherwise wouldnt, there is almost no scenario where another roll is better than corsair's.

That pretty much sums it up. Seriously, COR has been out for 2.5 years. Using COR roll in merit parties should be common knowledge by this point.

[Callisto]

The only time I don't is when I need to cycle 3 rolls, other than that all the way.

And even then I might cycle 4 and give it to me and the healer only, lol.

[Tsuko_Asura]

15% is a lower bound expected value that doesn't take Snake Eye or Fold into account. With Snake Eye up, the expected value is closer to 18%.


That pretty much sums it up. Seriously, COR has been out for 2.5 years. Using COR roll in merit parties should be common knowledge by this point.

This.^

I'm not even the Corsair in my merit parties, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let them choose some retarded combination over the most effective one. I have no qualms with telling them exactly what they're going to do if they want to stay.

[Xaetica]

Like always, shit is situational. If you party with only 2handers (as I do) you are better off doing SAM/DRK rolls.

[Falisa]

The logic I use with Corsair's roll is this. If the party can keep chain with only one of my DD rolls, then that 2nd roll is better used for Corsair's. If they can only keep chain with both DD rolls, then you won't find me in that party.

Also, if you're in a good merit party its also better to use Corsair's over another DD roll because you would be killing too fast and have downtime due to repops.

[rog]

cor roll for the brd,rdm, and cor, and 2 dd rolls for the dds =p

[Thistle]

cor roll for the brd,rdm, and cor, and 2 dd rolls for the dds =p

You're nicer than me! COR roll for me, then things like PUP and BST rolls for the DDs~!

[Mytiwar]

Shit is situational etc.

A decent cor will juggle between Cor, sam, war, chaos, hunter's, evoker's roll. Depending on what the party demands. I always favoured pleasing others over xp/hr.

Though I must say I fucking hate elitists that want a dual brd pt only. Imo brd/cor is better than brd/brd so what gives?

[nekura]

Screw that, 2x (good) DD, 2x BRD, COR, RDM at birds! Help me make this happen Falisa. D;

[Callisto]

I still want to try something along the lines of BRD COR SAM DDx2 DNC, fuck MP altogether.