Powell endorses Obama

[Dimmauk]

Whatever you think of Colin Powell, dismissing his endorsement of Obama as "one black guy supporting another black guy" (ignoring the fact of course that they are both mixed race anyway) is pretty much hugely insulting to Colin Powell. Do you really think that he is incapable of intelligent decision making? Is he just another stupid nigger who can't see past race?

Or does saying "Oh it's just a black guy supporting another black guy" mean that whoever says that is so cynical when it comes to black people that they become nothing but an amorphous, single-brained mob of ignorance?

I couldn't agree with you more.

Rush Limbaugh was saying over and over that it was only cause he was black. It was disgusting.

[Xno Kappa]

Who the fuck listens to Rush Limbaugh, seriously. It's scary how people still consider this mans word worth listening too. He should do America a favor and just OD off prescription drugs already.

[aurik]

Rush Limbaugh, racist? Say it ain't so!

[Valisk]

@Deejay

Great points. But I still feel that a majority of black people are voting simply because there is a black candidate running. That "prank" that Howard Stern pulled by having a reporter go to prodominately black neighborhoods and propose all of McCain's policies as Obamas is a perfect example. I guarantee that would work in a majority of places. They arent focusing on the issues, they are focusing on skin color. People on my inner circle know the issues/policies. Majority of the people [I know] do not know the issues/policies.

You're right about the choose or lose campaign in 2004. But they did not push nearly this hard and I don't remember them telling people who to vote for. This campaign they are.

[Day]

I actually never specified NAACP. I was speaking in general terms and I guess whoever responded to me automatically assumed I was referring to the NAACP.

I'm speaking in general terms and just dislike the fact that a lot black people weren't involved prior to this election.

A lot of people weren't involved prior to this election. Including myself and I'm lily white.

[Beckwin]

Majority of the people [I know] do not know the issues/policies.

welcome to every goddam election

[Dimmauk]

Rush Limbaugh, racist? Say it ain't so!

MSNBC showed a clip of it too. LOL.

[Dimmauk]

@Deejay

Great points. But I still feel that a majority of black people are voting simply because there is a black candidate running. That "prank" that Howard Stern pulled by having a reporter go to prodominately black neighborhoods and propose all of McCain's policies as Obamas is a perfect example. I guarantee that would work in a majority of places. They arent focusing on the issues, they are focusing on skin color. People on my inner circle know the issues/policies. Majority of the people [I know] do not know the issues/policies.

You're right about the choose or lose campaign in 2004. But they did not push nearly this hard and I don't remember them telling people who to vote for. This campaign they are.

I didn't see it or hear it, but it sounds like the Jaywalking thing, where they only show the retards, and not the ones who got it right.

[Plow]

You are missing the point.

I didn't question his record. I said I liked his actions in a lot of regards.

I said I didn't care about his endorsement of Obama because of his involvement in the war.

You are downplaying his role. The war has cost how many lives and how much money? etc etc

He could have refused to address the UN. Instead, all he did was advocate a multinational front. And you reiterated my original point:

People USED him because of his popularity and esteem. He's said he, himself was fooled, but at the time he was expressing dissent and has even gone on record saying the so-called evidence he delivered was "deliberately misleading." Seems like a nice way to say lies.

CIA reports conducted in 2002 also point out that elements of his report were dismissed as fraudulent (uranium from Niger). Yet, he still perpetuated that bullshit. He was one of 3 people who publicly stated that that was true. Again, he's Colin Powell, so "average Americans" will believe him.

@First bold text:

This is your opinion. There are people who are far more accomplished - in my view - who aren't involved in politics. Academics/activists.

@Second bold:

First of all, I don't look at things being Democratic or Republican or Conservative or Liberal. In fact, neo-liberal economic and social reforms have caused great destruction around the world. Whatever sides he's going back and forth to, are narrow at best. And again, while I acknowledge his good character and accomplishments, there are people I respect more who are not politicians.

@Third bold:

This was my point. When I said he got punk'd into delivering a pack of lies. Someone like him, with all his esteem, was completely used but they didn't manipulate him. He did this on his own accord.

Things are made WORSE when he admits that his 'evidence' was "deliberately misleading." Ok, if it was, then WHY go through with it? Clearly, this man has done so much that telling the truth wouldn't be difficult right? I wouldn't make a big deal out of this if it hadn't have led to a war.

If for example, he delivered an address to the UN that "deliberately [misled]" the public into believing croc shoes was cool, then I wouldn't care.

No, I believe it's you that's missing the point.

You believe Powell lied intentionally to mislead the country and world into war.

The reality is that Powell saw the country was going to war, saw that he could not stop it, and saved it from being "fuck you world, we're invading Iraq, and we don't give a shit what you think."


Have you even stopped to consider what happens if Powell doesn't garner international support? Do you realize that it's not just possible, but quite likely, that Bush starts the war without support, Iran gets involved, Syria gets involved and... the U.N. is on THEIR side because Bush completely blew them off?


Powell went off the evidence he had, which he believed was correct at the time. Realizing you were wrong and admitting it is not a bad thing. And, again, even if he had realized it at the time, he essentially had to do it to avoid the risk of starting World War III because Bush was pissed that they didn't go after the guy that tried to kill his daddy when they had the chance.

[Elvis]

I didn't say HE lied. I said he presented information that was, in his own words, "deliberately misleading."

That is his realization. While he might not have done the shitty misleading research HIMSELF, he still presented it. He is still partly responsible - which again comes back to my original point. The point you missed because you began telling me his life story.

He was used for his 'appeal'.

You haven't even addressed the fact that CIA documents (among other intelligence) released before 2003, were dismissing many aspects of the report he presented, as fraudulent. Namely the Niger uranium. He not only stated this in the report but he went on the record with it. Tenet, Bush and him were the only people in the world publicly espousing that bullshit. It was disproven so quickly that it's laughable but the damage was done.

I never said he was a bad person. I just think his endorsement is meaningless. Of course, it's going to carry superficial political weight. The election is winding down. He's not campaigning for Obama. He waited til the very end to make this announcement . It's a smart move no doubt, but it is also a very superficial move.

It will appeal to the people who believed his address in 2003.

He has a good record, despite his tenure in the Bush admin.

[Valisk]

Bush was pissed that they didn't go after the guy that tried to kill his daddy when they had the chance.

rofl, sorry this brings back memories of the Chappelle skit. "That nigga tried to kill my FAUTHA!" I'm watching that tonight lol.

[Dimmauk]

I didn't say HE lied. I said he presented information that was, in his own words, "deliberately misleading."

That is his realization. While he might not have done the shitty misleading research HIMSELF, he still presented it. He is still partly responsible - which again comes back to my original point. The point you missed because you began telling me his life story.

He was used for his 'appeal'.

You haven't even addressed the fact that CIA documents (among other intelligence) released before 2003, were dismissing many aspects of the report he presented, as fraudulent. Namely the Niger uranium. He not only stated this in the report but he went on the record with it. Tenet, Bush and him were the only people in the world publicly espousing that bullshit. It was disproven so quickly that it's laughable but the damage was done.

I never said he was a bad person. I just think his endorsement is meaningless. Of course, it's going to carry superficial political weight. The election is winding down. He's not campaigning for Obama. He waited til the very end to make this announcement . It's a smart move no doubt, but it is also a very superficial move.

It will appeal to the people who believed his address in 2003.

He has a good record, despite his tenure in the Bush admin.

I think all endorsements are meaningless. I could really care less what celebrity, be it political or hollywood, is going to vote for.

[Plow]

I didn't say HE lied. I said he presented information that was, in his own words, "deliberately misleading."

That is his realization. While he might not have done the shitty misleading research HIMSELF, he still presented it. He is still partly responsible - which again comes back to my original point. The point you missed because you began telling me his life story.

He was used for his 'appeal'.

You haven't even addressed the fact that CIA documents (among other intelligence) released before 2003, were dismissing many aspects of the report he presented, as fraudulent. Namely the Niger uranium. He not only stated this in the report but he went on the record with it. Tenet, Bush and him were the only people in the world publicly espousing that bullshit. It was disproven so quickly that it's laughable but the damage was done.

I never said he was a bad person. I just think his endorsement is meaningless. Of course, it's going to carry superficial political weight. The election is winding down. He's not campaigning for Obama. He waited til the very end to make this announcement . It's a smart move no doubt, but it is also a very superficial move.

It will appeal to the people who believed his address in 2003.

He has a good record, despite his tenure in the Bush admin.

2 things.

First off, he realized, admitted, and acted upon his realization that he had done wrong. You're saying this as if he's going around saying "no I know they have nukes," or even said that in the first place, or as if it's somehow wrong to realize and admit your mistakes and show remorse.

Your whole argument about the Niger uranium is flawed in that he didn't say they were getting it, but that they were *trying* to get it, which, knowing what we do about Hussein, is more than likely quite true. Honestly I'm a little uninformed on what actually went down with the Niger thing, because I never took it as more than an obvious comment that rather he has them or not, he's *trying* to attain nuclear capability.


Secondly, you fail to realize the implications of the endorsement because you're missing key information-- namely the fact that Powell donated the maximum allowed to McCain's campaign a year ago, and was a major McCain supporter in 2000. This is not a guy that "planned" to endorse Obama and sat back waiting for the right time to do it. This is an honest man that doesn't get into the bullshit of politics except when he must to do the right thing. He stuck with the Republican party, and McCain, as long as he believed it was the right place to be. When the McCain campaign became unreasonable, and McCain basically transformed himself and his campaign into W. 2.0 (all while claiming to distance himself as much as possible), he made the decision that Obama was the right man for the job, and gave him his endorsement.

[Elvis]

I'm not saying he planned the timing of his endorsement.

Just that, in and of itself, the timing of his endorsement is very smart.

More like, it just ended up that way.

I also think he genuinely believes in Obama/etc.

[test123]

if republicans weren't too fat and stupid to begin with; Ron Paul would be candidate, true fact!

[archibaldcrane]

CNN had a poll:

Whose endorsement do you value more?

Colin Powell 54%
Joe the Plumber(sic) 46%

[Plow]

CNN had a poll:

Whose endorsement do you value more?

Colin Powell 54%
Joe the Plumber(sic) 46%

This thread is about the best evidence I've ever seen of how little the average American actually knows about its own government and the people running it.

Ok, 2nd best.

[Saphirea]

I wish they had done this poll after the fact of Powell to see what it would effect later on. Does make me wonder though, how they say race isn't an issue, this is one of the first polls I've seen with real data behind it.

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/...003_ep_2pp.pdf

[Woozie]

I wish they had done this poll after the fact of Powell to see what it would effect later on. Does make me wonder though, how they say race isn't an issue, this is one of the first polls I've seen with real data behind it.

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/...003_ep_2pp.pdf

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html

In 2004, blacks were overwhelmingly behind Kerry. So it's not an issue of race (blacks voting for blacks because they're black) as much as it's an issue of party (blacks voting for democrats which in this case *happens* to be black this time).

Edit: Also, according to wiki, blacks were overwhelmingly behind Clinton in 96. I'm pretty sure if we can go back through many elections and find this same trend. So again, not about race.

[Deejay]

I wish they had done this poll after the fact of Powell to see what it would effect later on. Does make me wonder though, how they say race isn't an issue, this is one of the first polls I've seen with real data behind it.

http://www.militarytimes.com/static/...003_ep_2pp.pdf

8.5/10 black people vote democrat. Let's say that 9/10 black people vote for Obama this year.

That means .5/10 (1 out of 20) African American citizens are actually swayed by race. That's hardly something anyone could even begin to complain about.