University Shooting at Western Kentucky

[Kuya]

I like how you assumed it was away from civilization. Where do you think i live? Haiti?

[Gregorio]

sure, give all the students permission to carry arms on campus, because we all know college students are a responsible bunch, they will never drink and drive or anything, much less drink and carry arms.

You guys are acting like college kids can't carry guns if they wanted to already. THEY CAN. Just not on campus. And bars are not on campus. Allowing students to carrry on campus isn't going to make every one of them storm the courthouse applying for CC permits, or make them go get a gun get drunk and start carrying it around shooting people.

[Gregorio]

I like how you assumed it was away from civilization. Where do you think i live? Haiti?

I like how you ignored the rest of my post. Am I supposed to know where you live/go to school? Did you post a picture in some stickied thread that I missed of your campus surrounded by barb wire fence and armed guards in the middle of a busy city that I need to see?

[Stiker]

And if half the population isn't carrying a gun then what's the point. It's highly unlikely that the student would be in the room being shot. And if he's not he should be running as Remy pointed out.

And I completely agree. Again don't get me wrong, I do NOT WANT more guns in school. I simply don't agree with some of the slippery-slope arguments that have been stated.

The actual problem is that we have insane assholes coming in and shooting up the schools. You should feel safe at school without the fear of violence. That is why I'm against CC on school grounds. CC is for your personal protection when you are outside protected environments, not while in them.

If a supposed protected environment isn't safe, then bulk up the protection. Look at airports as an example, 9/11 happened and now you can't even get a corkscrew through security (or at least that's the intent). Rare incident, very tragic, but steps have been taken to try and prevent it. Why we don't take a similar approach with the schools is beyond me.

[Rhinox]

I think he's in PR. Don't ask me how I know because theres absolutely nothing that says it everytime he posts.

[Gregorio]

I think he's in PR. Don't ask me how I know because theres absolutely nothing that says it everytime he posts.

No shit really?

I didn't know that all of Puerto Rico is exactly the same and there's no rural areas or ghetto areas anywhere. What the fuck was I doing assuming it was like every other place in the world where there's good areas and bad areas.

[Kuya]

I like how you ignored the rest of my post. Am I supposed to know where you live/go to school? Did you post a picture in some stickied thread that I missed of your campus surrounded by barb wire fence and armed guards in the middle of a busy city that I need to see?

It's called asking a question; you should look into it.

I did not respond to the rest of your post because it essentially said: "It's too much of a hassle". Also, who said anything about armed guards? Like i said, we never had a school shooting, well, not unless you count the cops doing the shooting.

[fantasticdan]

In my University, the school is surrounded by both walls and barbed fences, there really isn't any way someone could get in without being seen or tripping an alarm; you can mostly only enter via the gates, or the train station that's built beneath the campus, but then again, we've never had a campus shooting.

Are you allowed to bring your car on campus? If so, is your car searched for guns daily? If not, do you go through metal detectors and/or a security search as you enter the campus? How high are the fences, are they high enough that student couldn't throw a gun over and into a bush at night, and pick it up in the morning?

I'm not arguing that throwing a lot of money on additional security doesn't stop shootings completely, I'm saying, when you think about it logically, it doesn't stop really any shootings at all, unless you go totally overboard with it and create more problems in the process. It's not like these shooters just casually bring a gun to school and get caught by obvious security checkpoints, they tend to plan everything out.

I don't remember implying students should be able to carry guns on campus either, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with your second paragraph.

[Kuya]

Are you allowed to bring your car on campus? If so, is your car searched for guns daily? If not, do you go through metal detectors and/or a security search as you enter the campus? How high are the fences, are they high enough that student couldn't throw a gun over and into a bush, and pick it up in the morning?

None of that; we never had a campus shooting.

I don't remember implying students should be able to carry guns on campus either, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with your second paragraph.

Oh, good, then there's nothing to argue about.

it doesn't stop really any shootings at all

An assumption.

unless you go totally overboard with it.

This seems to be the theme of this thread.

[Gregorio]

It's called asking a question; you should look into it.

I did not respond to the rest of your post because it essentially said: "It's too much of a hassle". Also, who said anything about armed guards? Like i said, we never had a school shooting, well, not unless you count the cops doing the shooting.

I did ask a few questions in my response to you actually.

And if you ignore the point of a post and pick out a spot where I assume you went to school in a more rural area where there are barb wire fences and walls, and those wouldn't interfere with the rest of the city...and then you call me out on it trying to make me look silly, then we get to tangents like this.

[Darus Grey]

So we're just supposed to assume that it's better than spending more on security, Darus?

My point was we can't assume anything in the circumstances you gave. The "Facts" favor CC on-campus as much as they don't, because there is no information on the subject. As I said, the only information we have is about CC off-campus(and again, why is it significantly different?), so if that's the only information we have than that's the parallel we can draw.

[Rhinox]

No shit really?

I didn't know that all of Puerto Rico is exactly the same and there's no rural areas or ghetto areas anywhere. What the fuck was I doing assuming it was like every other place in the world where there's good areas and bad areas.

You're right because if he said Salinas you would know exactly where that is and what kind area and the security measures they use. My bad

lol why am I still arguing with you? I'm done.

[Gregorio]

You're right because if he said Salinas you would know exactly where that is and what kind area and the security measures they use. My bad

lol why am I still arguing with you?

If he said he lives in a city/small town/ghetto/rural area/whatever and actually described any of the scenarios previously listed then he could have made a point. Instead he deflected my post and responded with sarcasm. Do I really have to explain this all to you? If I said I lived near Wilkes-Barre would you go look up the city statistics so you could adequately debate with me? But wait that would take more than 7 minutes so I would win the internet by default.

And you're arguing with me because you like making yourself look stupid.

EDIT: Phew...6 minutes...just made it.

[Rhinox]

If he said he lives in a city/small town/ghetto/rural area/whatever and actually described any of the scenarios previously listed then he could have made a point. Instead he deflected my post and responded with sarcasm. Do I really have to explain this all to you? If I said I lived near Wilkes-Barre would you go look up the city statistics so you could adequately debate with me? But wait that would take more than 7 minutes so I would win the internet by default.

And you're arguing with me because you like making yourself look stupid.

EDIT: Phew...6 minutes...just made it.

aww you're trying so hard thats so cute.

[Churchill]

Beckwin you know I am not trolling. There's a reason we are recruited directly into our private counterparts.

[fantasticdan]

None of that; we never had a campus shooting.Oh, good, then there's nothing to argue about.An assumption.This seems to be the theme of this thread.

Oh wow really, you've never had a campus shooting? Neither have the other 99% of schools. Not sure what us agreeing against CCW on campus has to do with disagreeing on the value of heightened security measures, but sure ok.

[Gregorio]

aww you're trying so hard thats so cute.

Yeah by now I should know not to feed the trolls, but I can't resist.

[Kuya]

Oh wow really, you've never had a campus shooting? Neither have the other 99% of schools. Not sure what us agreeing against CCW on campus has to do with disagreeing on the value of heightened security measures, but sure ok.

Since you don't agree with CCW on campus or heightened security measures, barring that security measures are a little too varied to berate based on the examples that i proposed, what do you support in order to lower (as your snide comment reveals, this is a very small issue in terms of frequency, so i also wonder why it would require extreme security measures or CCW on campus) campus shootings?

My point was we can't assume anything in the circumstances you gave. The "Facts" favor CC on-campus as much as they don't, because there is no information on the subject. As I said, the only information we have is about CC off-campus(and again, why is it significantly different?), so if that's the only information we have than that's the parallel we can draw.

Though my contention remains that increasing security measures is a much more reliable way to handle these situations, as security measures aren't just measured on how many campus shootings occur, if you don't mind, care to pass by me the comparisons to CC off-campus? I presume you are pondering the deterrent effect of making it knowledgeable that a campus has armed students and persons?

[Darus Grey]

Though my contention remains that increasing security measures is a much more reliable way to handle these situations, as security measures aren't just measured on how many campus shootings occur, if you don't mind, care to pass by me the comparisons to CC off-campus? I presume you are pondering the deterrent effect of making it knowledgeable that a campus has armed students and persons?

Only thing I'm pondering is how people(not you specifically) can make an argument against CC on campus but generally be ok with it off campus(because if you're making an argument against all guns, sorry, we don't live in that country). Off-campus people with CC permits don't go willy nilly shooting people up all day and are generally fairly responsible(It's obvious most people here have never used a gun and don't understand how HARD it is to shoot another human).

They give fairly retarded scenarios, which of course they refuse to back up, and the ones like drunkeness that are legitimate *don't even happen on campus* and thus those people can legally carry in those bad situations already.

I guess I should clarify my personal standpoint, in that I'm against CC on a personal level but favor it on a constitutional level.

The only reason I'm saying anything to begin with is because some of the amazingly illogical arguments from the anti-CC crowd.

To get to your question, I think whether increased security is more effective than CC varies too much by scenario(no amount of security will deter a person hell-bent on shooting up a school, you don't have to worry about security checkpoints when you can just shoot the guards), and logically I think CC would be favorable in that particular instance because the people being shot at can respond faster.

[fantasticdan]

Since you don't agree with CCW on campus or heightened security measures, barring that security measures are a little too varied to berate based on the examples that i proposed, what do you support in order to lower (as your snide comment reveals, this is a very small issue in terms of frequency, so i also wonder why it would require extreme security measures or CCW on campus) campus shootings?

Beyond basic security personal that all schools already have, and potentially some cops depending on the size/area of the campus, absolutely nothing. Any solution that could realistically stop students from getting guns onto campus (IE: very over the top security) are in my mind, ultimately far worse than dealing with extremely minute chance of a shooting.