Ret is broken

[Plow]

Those changes hardly make it lolret.

It's pretty much -25% dmg on everything a ret pally does other than auto-attack.

[Eaglestrike]

Those changes hardly make it lolret.

It sure crushes the other two specs DPS-wise and now makes Ret completely manaburnable.

Edit: And to add, making ret manaburnable DOES NOTHING AGAINST BURST. Their burst is weakened quite a bit with that but most of those nerfs were more to sustained damage than burst, which is just stupid.

[EternityEnd]

GC is such a complete hypocrite. He was all on about how they thought Ret's sustained damage was fine and did NOT need nerfing, only their burst. Then they go and nerf everything about our sustained damage except auto-attack. Nice job, Blizzard. Nice job.

lmfaohahahahaomgit'saretcomingatmepokedeadRET

[Correction]

WAAAAH I WANT ALL MY SPECS TO BE ARENA VIABLE WAAAAAAAH

[Eaglestrike]

WAAAAH I WANT ALL MY SPECS TO BE ARENA VIABLE WAAAAAAAH

We still only really had one arena viable spec...now we're back to 0.

[Correction]

Scenario 1: Ret stays the way it is, and you arena under your existing spec and have plenty of weeks until season 5 begins to get all the items you want.

Scenario 2: Ret continues to get nerfed but by the time you're 80 and season 5 begins, Paladins get another talent review and presto you're able to PvP better.

Still sounds like a shitton of fruitless QQ'ing until the math comes back from some retail level 80 experiences.

[Dezzimal]

We still only really had one arena viable spec...now we're back to 0.

Bitch please. You can't say you're not viable in arena until literally nobody is playing your class in any bracket.

[Eaglestrike]

Scenario 3: Ret gets nerfed like it currently is to below viability and it never gets fixed until season 8.5 but is nerfed again before season 9, just like it was pre 2.0 and how it is looking to happen for 3.0.

The match from level 80 experiences were that retadins were NOT retardedly overpowered as far as I saw. The PvE DPS wasn't at the top but was competitive and they had burst to be viable in PvP.

IMO all they really needed to do was alter the super crit chance on stunned targets and then make bubble increase GCD by 100% as well for abilities making it so it was still a bubble + heal situations as opposed to a bubble + KILL SHIT situation which is what made them truly OP.

[Osede]

Bitch please. You can't say you're not viable in arena until literally nobody is playing your class in any bracket.

remember the first european 2v2 team that reach 2200 or higher in s3 or s4?


the holy pal is one of the member

[Krandor]

You mean the team that was blatantly win trading their way to the top?

[Eaglestrike]

Bitch please. You can't say you're not viable in arena until literally nobody is playing your class in any bracket.

You mean like the last 5+ tournaments covered by MMO-champion that had I think 1 total paladin across all the teams in all of the tournaments? Being a class like that and seeing a huge nerf like that makes everyone think things will turn out the same as BC.

[Tomino]

crying a little for the nerf (it wont go live until Lich? or will it?), but I must admit levelling as retri was quite godmode since 3.01.. i *never* needed to drink or stop for anything, and mana-regain was even faster entering combat than sitting drinking.
Entered Zangramash at 64 because of the exp patch and i was killing marshfangs in 4 hits (white-judge-crusader-divine) without even needing Hammer, and my gear was nothing out of the ordinary.

Maybe there was some needed tuning, maybe they will re-fix some aspects once the player base is largely at 80.

[Gulkeeva]

From some threads/videos I've seen of ret... the only.... noticeable change is...

You don't crit as hard as you used to... and if your soloing (or instancing) and using consecrate, you'll run out of mana within like 1-2min (only if using consecrate) otherwise you'll still go for awhile, but actually need to sit to regain mana eventually.

[Eaglestrike]

crying a little for the nerf (it wont go live until Lich? or will it?), but I must admit levelling as retri was quite godmode since 3.01.. i *never* needed to drink or stop for anything, and mana-regain was even faster entering combat than sitting drinking.
Entered Zangramash at 64 because of the exp patch and i was killing marshfangs in 4 hits (white-judge-crusader-divine) without even needing Hammer, and my gear was nothing out of the ordinary.

Maybe there was some needed tuning, maybe they will re-fix some aspects once the player base is largely at 80.

I level my warlock hitting 3-4 buttons and then running off to pull another mob, hit 3-4 buttons, run off to another mob, 3-4 buttons. Never having to regen mana or stop at all. I don't think that example is really an OP situation. From what I gather hunters can probably do the same, enh/ele shammies don't ever need to stop, I know I don't have to stop ever as prot and rogues/warriors only need to stop to heal every once in a while. As my rogue doing basic grinding that wasn't that common unless I was in a level I didn't over level and that's when I was combat, Mut can possibly kill mobs before cheap shot goes off now, lol.

My main issues with the nerfs are that:
1) They nerf paladin baseline, not ret baseline. They're hurting the other specs when only one needs to be hurt. In fact the damage of holy and prot both need to be increased.
2) Mana regen is crucial. They want to make mana tough on PvP ret but it's not because you rarely consecrate in PvP and can easily get around not doing it. But in PvE ret always wants to consecrate to get every bit of DPS they can. So this nerf to JotW hurts PvE a LOT more than PvP.

My hope and what a friend of mine is thinking will happen is they'll undo some of these nerfs once WotLK launches...but I'm not so sure about that since as was said unless tomorrow brings these nerfs they won't come until WotLK and it'd be pointless to undo them so quick. I just think paladin has been handled poorly after a very very nice remake of the class.

[Dezzimal]

You mean like the last 5+ tournaments covered by MMO-champion that had I think 1 total paladin across all the teams in all of the tournaments? Being a class like that and seeing a huge nerf like that makes everyone think things will turn out the same as BC.

Those were 3v3 thournaments, and its not your class' fault that druid warrior warlock is/was the supremely dominant 3v3 comp that at the very very top rankings. I know plenty of paladins that achieved gladiator rankings as ret and holy in every bracket.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ale&n=Maintain
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...d+Hand&n=Rydaa

To name two.

[Arvin]

delicious paladin tears

[Ishido]

Theorycrafting and some testing apparently claims this to be a ~10% nerf to damage in PvE, and mana remains infinitely sustainable using a no-consecrate, no-seal twisting rotation (until under 20% where it can be sustained for somewhere between 1 and 2 minutes throwing HoWs in).

I really think Bliz should slightly buff base mana pools, while adjusting mana costs to remain similar to what they are now. It would help specs like ret, enhancement, and feral significantly while definitely not hurting other mana using classes.

Also ret felt extremely powerful while leveling, being able to easily solo most 3 person quests seems a bit out of line. I'll be able to compare it to lock in a few weeks, maybe sooner since I have a RAF lock at 30, and my partner wants to be 70 before wrath comes out.

[Eaglestrike]

I can solo 3-5man quests as prot no problem, lol. I solo'd HH, Nexus King Saladhaar (the huge ethereal in Netherstorm) and will be going to do the Ogri'la 5-mans at some point to see if I can do that.

[Correction]

I really think Bliz should slightly buff base mana pools, while adjusting mana costs to remain similar to what they are now. It would help specs like ret, enhancement, and feral significantly while definitely not hurting other mana using classes.

Spell costs are a flat % of your base mana pool aready, so larger base mana pools won't help much. Their current line of tuning suggests they're still not done with making mana regeneration less of a hassle without making it completely brainless (hi2u shadow priest/mana pot nerfs). Ultimately I assume their goal is to force casters to make harder decisions when balacing their mana regen vs. their DPS.

Which sucks at present for retadins and mages. But since mages aren't a hybrid class they don't possess the QQ MORE trait so they don't cry quite as hard.

[Krandor]

I can solo 3-5man quests as prot no problem, lol. I solo'd HH, Nexus King Saladhaar (the huge ethereal in Netherstorm) and will be going to do the Ogri'la 5-mans at some point to see if I can do that.

The 4th quest in that chain has to have 5 people to summon so : /

And I dunno, mana regen is way up right now with the raid wide buffs. Easy content yeah but I mean, between doing the first 5 in SSC on my Holy Paladin on Saturday and Vashj with my Hunter on Sunday, I didn't have to use a single mana pot either night, and only used viper for like 10 seconds max during Vashj.